Part IV. How have the rumor spreaders altered the truth about 625 meeting?
Now we will compare how the 625 recording has been analyzed and distorted by the rumor spreaders (aka HoTels as mentioned in part I).
The information we used for comparison is based on:
- A series of web-postings by former administrator of DNBN(www.dnbn.org), “별(Byul,Star)” which includes History of TVXQ Affairs
- Another posting titled ‘625 Gangnam Baptist Church Meeting’ based on “별(Byul,Star)”’s posting from ‘TelZone Dong Bang Shin Ki Gallery’ (Link)
The reason that the HoTels took former administrator of DNBN’s words seriously and used her explanation to support their claim and strengthen the rumors’ credibility has a connection with DNBN’s influence on the TVXQ fandom. “DNBN” is a fan site formed by voluntary actions of the fans, and its large scale within the fandom almost equals that of the official fan club managed by the TVXQ’s management company. DNBN serves the role of a centralized body of the fandom where information about TVXQ and the fandom are gathered and shared. And since the management and TVXQ’s family actually did contact DNBN’s administrators for important issues, the administrator has huge influence on the TVXQ fandom regardless of authenticity or validity of the information he/she provides. Consequently, when the former administrator of DNBN posted such articles on the former domain of DNBN, fans would absorb and accept what the former administrator of DNBN,“별,” posted about 625 meeting as if it was true, when in fact it was full of speculations.
HoTels’ so-called “Awakening” materials have been made into many different forms and distributed to major portal sites, personal blogs, and general forums and communities unrelated to idols, and even overseas with English, Japanese, and Chinese translations. Especially in Japan, where keeping maintenance and stability of a group is a priority as a cultural value, Junsu, Yuchun, and Jaejoong’s reputation and public image as celebrities have fell to the ground, thanks to the efforts of the HoTels. The three were denounced as traitors to SM and condemned as the main culprit in breaking up TVXQ on its way to the top without a proper understanding of the reasoning behind the lawsuit. Now, the more horrifying thing is that HoTels have turned their attention to where JYJ wants to expand their career – to the fans in Britain, United States, and Southeast Asian countries where TVXQ fandom is mainly composed of “all-fans” who support TVXQ itself as a group (as opposed to the Korean fandom that more often focuses on one individual within the group).
Refuting the rumor spreaders’ claims in the distributed materials (such as above figure) was not a meaningful work, considering that such work might just make a big fuss over very simple thing when you just need to look at it the way it is. After all, these materials only take a good look at it to find out that it is illogical. The goal of the group forcing the fans and people who are not particularly interested in celebrities to “awaken” after reading their materials seems no different from that of a cult. HoTels’ information materials for awakening others (such as making people side with SME mindlessly and brew an unexplainable hatred for JYJ) is an unusual product with forced significance and fabricated stories only to serve its purpose – to attack Junsu, Yuchun, and Jaejoong and their family. Therefore, it will be sufficient to just read what they say as it is to understand what is true and false.
Transcribing what someone had said and giving meaning to those words are hard tasks, even for those who are experts in sociology or phenomenology who conduct quality research. So, recording a conversation and transcribing it to rashly analyze and categorize the contents will inevitable create many problems. That is precisely why the transcription needs to be checked by several people to make sure what is heard is correct and why any meaningful analysis of the conversation must be reviewed by either the interviewee or other experts, in order to make a reasonable argument. But was this process worthwhile to those who intend to slander and manipulate?
1. HoTels (HoTels)’s claims and the facts compared
HoTels’ claim
- Fans who support Junsu, Yuchun, and Jaejoong are trying to deny or understate the significance of 625 meeting because the information from the meeting will be to JYJ’s disadvantage if known to the public.
The facts and its significance
- Most of the TVXQ and three members’ fans knew the purpose and the contents of the meeting, and thus were not planning take action against the rumors and waiting to see how the situation develops. However, this lack of action did not stop the rumors but rather, gave the HoTels an opening to claim that fans were “not taking action because this is the truth,” unintentionally granting the plausibility of seeming credible.
- The rumors get more perverted by the day as SME drags on the lawsuit.
- All kinds of fabricated information which are intended to turn even by-standing fans against the three members were distributed for a year and half, and continue to this day.
- 55 minutes-long full recording is released when the HoTels started to distribute the edited version of 625 meeting (17 minutes-long) along with materials based on the former DNBN administrator’s postings
HoTels’ claim
- At the 625 meeting, “they direct the fans to spread rumors saying that Yunho and Changmin is responsible for TVXQ’s disbandment and make false statements that Junsu, Yuchun, and Jaejoong’s cosmetic business has nothing to do with this.”
- 625 meeting is THE starting point of TVXQ’s break-up
- We[HoTels and/or the fans] do not know why the three is suing SME
The facts and its significance
- 625 meeting’s purpose was to explain the rumors and establish the truth, not to encourage more rumors and/or distribute false information.
- Both Former DNBN administrator who claims to be “all-fan” and HoTels are not neutral but are partial to SM and its supporters. Since their judgments and interpretations are made from that point of view, her articles on the website are results of a partial, emotional analysis rather than means of delivering the facts.
- 625 meeting only confirmed that “TVXQ’s Junsu, Yuchun, and Jaejoong will leave SM, and Yunho and Changmin will stay” and that “the three may take legal actions against SM”
- In the 55 minute recording, it was revealed that the three is planning to take a legal action because of SM’s continued neglect of their suggestions to improve the conditions to continue TVXQ activities, unchanging working conditions and unfair distribution of profits into question.
- HoTels try to pervert the reason for this lawsuit by putting SM’s words in their mouth saying that the three is “leaving because SM is stopping them from participating in the cosmetic business.” That makes people wonder, what HoTels could be, “fans” who love and support TVXQ, or the SME’ pawns. This unusual phenomenon of focusing on spreading rumors and attacking the three for leaving SM rather than supporting the remaining two members’ activities as fans is first to be seen in the history of idol groups fandom that has continuously fought against SM. (Note: SM has had a history of making boy bands and dissolving them when the members’ contracts end, and thus growing a pool of fans who resist SM’s unfair treatment of its artists)
- From the beginning, the three have repeatedly said that their application of injunction does not signify TVXQ’s disbandment and that they have gave all efforts to settle this peacefully with SM through discussion. (Reference: 1, 2, 3).
- Korea Singers Association has also stated that TVXQ issue is a structural problem (Reference: Link).
- In the end, HoTels’ interpretations are based on the premise that all the information from the 625 meeting is a lie
HoTels’ claim
- It is not true that all five agreed to leave SM together at first. (claim of former DNBN administrator)
- 625 meeting is the origin of the traitor rumor. Although they refused to clarify the reason for leaving SM, the family emphasized that the two had a change of heart after one hour and decided to stay while the three stood firm on their decision to leave.
- They would not have asked the fans to support both sides although members are split into 3 and 2 if they hadn’t been sure that TVXQ would break up.
- When the three members’ family says that “there’s even 1% of hope that TVXQ will live on,” it means that there’s 99% chance that TVXQ will disband. Basically the family has determined that TVXQ will disband and are instigating fans to distribute false information.
- Yuchun’s mother saying “having this kind of meeting will create lots of talk” implies that the rumor that says the two members’ parents criticized this meeting before is true (when it is not), and comments about “Chunjaesu (YC/JJ/JS) are doing their best, trying their best to do what they want to do the most” and etc. alludes to TVXQ’s disbandment and three members independent group activities (as a separate unit).
The facts and its significance
- About former DNBN administrator’s claim “I am almost certain that it is not true that they were split up 3:2 after all five agreed to leave SM together” => She makes it clear that she made this conclusion after having interviewed Yunho and Changmin’s father AFTER the 625 meeting. This shows that her grounds for this conclusion were based on subjective opinions of an interest parties rather than objective observations and information that she gathered herself (BEFORE the 625 meeting). She says that she met the members’ family thinking she would be taking on a role of a moderator as an “all-fan,” but her partial judgment that assumes two members’ fathers are truthful while the three members say otherwise proves to be a contradiction. Former DNBN administrator promised to resign (basically the members of DNBN suggested that she resigns herself and make a graceful exit rather than be officially impeached) after her action had caused a huge scandal in DNBN, having gone far beyond the course of action that can be taken as a fan. However, not only did she fail to keep that promise, but she refused to hand over the old DNBN domain (dnbn.org), and used it herself instead as an outlet for her sophistry aimed to justify her actions to the fans. Furthermore, she only demands the three members’ sacrifice for the greater cause, using two members’ statements that sympathize with SM which makes an excuse out of the three members’ ‘participation in cosmetic business.’ Anyone with a common sense should know well that SM is only using the cosmetic business idea to obscure the social view established from the late 1990s that already acknowledged that the contract between idol groups and large entertainment management companies are “slave contracts.” This demand to the three members’ certainly shows no respect or consideration for their decisions and makes us wonder if she is indeed TVXQ’s “all-fan” as she claims.
- At the 625 meeting, the three members’ family says that they understand the two members’ decision to stay, and that it was members’ personal decisions to stay or leave SM. Although they seem curious about the reason behind the two members’ change of heart after having agreed to leave SM together, we find nowhere in the 55 minute recording the three members’ family’s calling the two members ‘traitors.’
- It is simply nonsense that the family’s request to support the three as well as the other two was meant to brand Yunho and Changmin as traitors. In the 625 recording, the family makes it clear that they cannot reveal the details of the situation, but since all five are still and always will be TVXQ, they ask that fans support all five, no matter how things turn out. Indeed, the family made the right decision about not disclosing any further information to the fans. It is foolish to expose details about the internal affairs to a third party whose relationship cannot be defined by related interests or blood. The family has not made a mistake of criticizing the two members and their parents, and has clearly stated to the fans that the root of the TVXQ’s main problem is SME. On the contrary, the family tried to calm down the fans by asking them to support all five members of TVXQ. Truly, not all of the fans present at the meeting acted “wisely” as the family requested. Some chose to choose their words carefully while others chose to be aggressive. But we should remember that it is ultimately the fans that chose which path to follow. We cannot pass on the responsibility for our own course of action to the three members and their family. Anyways, thanks to these vicious attacks on each other, this whole situation escalated to be a showdown between the fans of the three and the two. Just as SM wanted, the divided fandom made the focus of TVXQ issue to look like the problem between the members, and not the unfair contract.
- It was found that the HoTels have extracted only certain parts of a sentence or a paragraph, or made errors in transcriptions to pervert its significance. Also they misquoted parts of the sentences out of context to denounce it as encouraging distribution of false information.
Actual quote: “Hello, I’m Yuchun’s mother. I am sorry that we had to meet like this. I wasn’t comfortable coming to this meeting. At first. Uh, having a meeting like this will create a lot of talk… I think we are forced to have this meeting by external forces, and I want to choose my words very carefully. What Yuchun kept on telling me was, mmmm…. That he feels very badly about this, Right now. Even now he adores all of the five members and has never thought of ending anything. He was just patiently waiting and keeping silent. But then, what you say [about us] didn’t make sense at all and we just wanted an outlet to let the truth be known … CJS is trying their very best on their part like [Junsu’s father] said before. They are refraining from saying what they really want to say and still trying their best. So please just stand by them whatever happens, because truth will eventually be revealed. Just stand by them. Thank you
- Junsu, Yuchun, Jaejoong, and not even the fans have ever even dreamed of TVXQ that’s not composed of the five until Yunho and Changmin themselves released 5th album under the name of TVXQ Act II that carries on the ‘legitimacy.’
- Then, who is accusing Yunho and Changmin of being traitors? Is it justified to blame the five members and the family who tried to protect TVXQ for the traitor rumor that malicious fans and HoTels made up?
HoTels’ claims
- At the 625 meeting, the three members’ family instigate the fans to distribute false information (quoted conversation)
- “Well if you could tell your acquaintance what you know… and we’ll do our best to find the best solution if you could just wait for a while…”
- “There might be some people writing threads because personally they don’t like the situation, but fan-sites don’t really know what would come as a result. We don’t know how this situation will unfold. Fans could gather together for demonstration…”
- If that’s what you think, I think you shouldn’t post this your fan sites as you are the admin and your position could be little difficult. So maybe through personal blogs or…”
- “I think the situation might just blow up. So in this situation I think it might be better to do this. It’s better to say that why Yunho and Changmin couldn’t be part of this when we all wanted to stand together”
- “If the five members choose a different path even though you tried your best, we still made this decision thinking that supporting all five members would be really helpful. I think that’s why we’ve gathered here together… It’s just a discussion at the moment and we don’t know yet, so please support all the members to stay together. It breaks our heart after hearing bad rumors, but I do hope the admins can guide it toward a positive way.”
- As quoted, they abet the fans to help the three members by posting things on personal blogs (helping the three = the lawsuit = winning the lawsuit = forming a trio, JYJ)
- Quote # 4 indicates that the family told the fans to “wisely” spread the traitor rumor as a way to explain ‘why Yunho and Changmin did not participate in the lawsuit’
- The family ordered the fan site admins to manipulate the fans toward urging the other two members participate in the lawsuit by leaving SM like the three members so that the five can stay together.
The facts and its significance
- It was found that the HoTels have extracted certain parts of a sentence or a paragraph, or made errors in transcriptions to distort the meaning. Also they misquoted parts of the sentence that describe a situation to denounce it as encouraging distribution of false information. .
- Quote #2 was quoted in parts so that it looks like they are insinuating starting a demonstration as members of a fan site.
Actual conversation: “Well we, the parents and the members think the same. We just asked you to be here to let you know the truth. So if you could, just be understanding. But I don’t want you to do the same [spreading rumors]. We just wanted to tell you that there are these kinds of rumors. Fans who love CJS have already heard what I, parents, and sister has said, so just know that the rumors are not true. There might be some people writing threads because personally they don’t like the situation, but fan-sites don’t really know what would come as a result. We don’t know how this situation will unfold. Fans could gather together for demonstration or something“ If you listen to the recording yourself, you can fully understand what the speakers saying in this context. They simply suggested that the admins should not announce anything yet, because they fear that the fans may start demonstrations (which is understandable looking back on the H.O.T. situation) if the fans found out about the truth about these rumors, and that they held the meeting to give the admins a heads-up about what will happen. Quote #3 which is about posting on personal blogs can be explained by following a similar logic.
- Quote #4 was altered in meaning by changing Yunho and Changmin’s positions.
Actual conversation: “It’s better to say that why Yunho and Changmin couldn’t be part of this when we all wanted to stand together. If we try to show the truth like that, that might be exactly what someone had intended to happen in the first place. We would rather show our concern about Yunho and Changmin. Because that is the truth. We gathered here because of *** (Inaudible), but the all members are here because of TVXQ, so I think this would be better…”
- Fans and the three want the five to stick together. HoTels extracted the quotes to make it seem like Yunho and Changmin were the subjects of the sentence, to argue that the family insinuated that Yunho and Changmin “should have followed but didn’t, and therefore they are traitors.” However, as you can see, what they actually tried to do was convince the fans why it would be more appropriate to explain the reason two couldn’t be part of this lawsuit although the three members made the efforts to persuade and stay together with the two.
- The quote ‘that might be exactly what someone had intended to happen in the first place’ means fans’ criticizing the two members for staying with SM may be what SME wants considering its past successes in tearing apart fandom of disbanded SM idol groups.
- The family is informing the fans about the current situation that the three and the who have taken different stance, and that fans should respect their decision.
- Fans are not forcing the two members to leave SM to join the three members as much as they are not expecting the three members to go back to SME in spite of knowing the conditions of the contract (Link). CEO Lee Su-Man have repeatedly revealed his views on artists from his management (“SM idol groups” = money $$$$) through his lectures and interviews as SM Entertainment started to build its reputation in Korean entertainment business world thanks to success of H.O.T. Considering his views on treating the artists as ‘products,’ would it be right for the three members to go back to SME just to carry on TVXQ’s name? According to the contract, the term of contract is still maintained even during the period of inactivity, so it is possible that they could be bound to SM Entertainment doing nothing well in to their 30s if the three go back to SM (excluding the time served in compulsory military service)
HoTels’ Claims
- When explaining the purpose of the 625 meeting, the family imply that they heard that the two members’ family had a similar meeting first, criticized the three members at the meeting, and that three members suffer from those criticisms so much that they think they would die. The two members’ family has never had such a meeting. Thus, three members’ family is making excuses about calling the meeting and such meeting is problematic mentioning death of the three members simply to make up lies about the two.l It is a lie that the three cannot continue their activities in Korea, and the family must have pressured the two to change their decisions with this allegation.
- Junsu’s answer to his father’s question about the time of termination of contract with AVEX, that it was March or April meant March, April of 2010. This means that the three already had a separate contract with AVEX at the time of the meeting.
- Junsu’s father keeps on changing his words about the distribution of the profit. At first he says he has never seen the contract, and then he mentions that heheard from the CEO that the distribution of profit is 9:1. In fact, the annual financial statement from SM shows that the profits from overseas activity are distributed 3:7.
- Individual activities were already planned before the lawsuit, so it does not make sense that SM planned the two members’ individual activities separately from TVXQ activities.
The facts and its significance
- It is well known that the families of the two members (not only the three members) have met with the fan site administrators for meals and meetings. They had frequent private meetings to explain rumors about the TVXQ members, and one well known example is Yunho’s father’s active use of his connections with the fan communities (i.e. Gratia and Ikadong) to protect Yunho with cooperation of the fan site administrators and other members’ families when ‘rotation’ rumors were spreading in 2004.l It can be suspected that the spreading of the rumors is not done on a individual level simply by the word of the mouth, seeing from the fact that: 1) orders to spread the rumors were well-organized and synchronized (for example, the fact that circulation of rumors about the three members’ breach of contract and cosmetic business started on June 23, followed by movements led by Yunho fans on June 24, and 26, 2) source of the information contained in the rumors seem be confidential information from SME. (Reference: Link1, Link2)
- Who is ‘A’ who personally contacted “별,” former DNBN administrator to inform her about the details of the situation (that it seems likely that TVXQ will disband)? Why hasn’t “별” revealed her source?
- Korean people use the expression “I’m going to die” when they are in a dire situation. The three members only expressed their extreme stress and mental and emotional pressure by using that expression. Just because the three members complained about their situation, can HoTels evaluate that 625 meeting itself is problematic? Anyone would understand their difficult position where they were forced to work with SM in a midst of a confrontation, whether he/she has background in Korean culture or not. After the lawsuit, JYJ have described those times to be “very difficult” in numerous interviews.
- Junsu, Yuchun, and Jaejoong are intrinsically singers as members of TVXQ. In Korea, programs where singers (artists) can perform on a national television are produced by entertainment department of the three major broadcasting companies. In fact, Korea Federation of Pop Culture and Art Industry (KFPCAI) sent out an official document (Link) to major broadcasting companies, and other culture and entertainment related companies asking them to stop working with JYJ on the request of Korea Entertainment Producer’s Association (KEPA) and Corea Entertainment Management Association (CEMA), KFPCAI’s most active and influential members. As a result, JYJ, except their appearance on KBS Drama Awards as special guests (which almost backfired as well due to external coercion on the Drama Department restricting their performance to just one song from the original sound track of the drama), are still not able to make appearance on television, not to mention music shows produced by the Entertainment Departments. Since fans can only see them on news and cultural programs, fans even joke about this situation calling JYJ the “idols of the News Department” (Link). As the family stated at 625 meeting , we can predict that the three only were allowed some room to continue their activities in Japan, where SM has relatively less influence, whereas in Korea, SM can use its others artists as bargaining chips on the table to hinder JYJ’s appearance on various TV programs. Avex is also a company that is strictly operates only for profits – Avex initially supported Junsu, Yuchun and Jaejoong’s individual activities as a trio unit as planned before the lawsuit around April 2010, but when it failed to bind the three to another unfair contract, it soon declared indefinite suspension on their activities and reconciled with SM to resume Yunho and Changmin’s activities as 2-member TVXQ.
- Junsu’s fathers remarks regarding Avex and activities in Japan
Actual quote: “TVXQ kids don’t have contract from Japan, and they don’t know how many years, until when the contract lasts. So, you know the kids must have their own plans, and they need to know when the contract ends to know when they will renew it, right? They were curious as well, and they’ve never seen it, so they asked. But still they have not seen it. When does the contract end? I asked Junsu. Because we can’t cause damage to Japan, [Japanese management] Avex, so we asked in March, April. Did you sign? No. Did you see the contract? He said he hadn’t. None of them did. So when they talk about this, yes, it may have seemed disgraceful of them, and they heard things like, why won’t you just do what we tell you to do, and other things along that line? And if you heard this, some of you may agree, but some of you might jump to conclusions and I don’t think it’s this here. But for now, if TVXQ situation turns out to be 3 to 2, three of them has had some progress in legalistic… ways…”
Here, ‘March or April when the contract with AVEX will end’ indicates ‘March or April of the year 2009’, but HoTels have interpreted this as ‘April 2010’ which happens to be when the three members started their activities in Japan. Using this misinterpretation, they insist that the three members predicted TVXQ’s disbandment and started preparing for it. This claim is based on an incorrect understanding of the context of the conversation.
- HoTels also criticize Junsu’s father for changing his words mentioning the 9:1 ratio for profit distribution after he says he doesn’t know the term of the contract. If you can read, Junsu’s father has made it clear that he had never seen the contract for TVXQ’s activities in Japan, and that it was Kim Young Min who mentioned the 9:1 ratio. Getting information from the contract by reading it with one’s own eyes and finding out (or rather, hearing) about the 9:1 ratio of profit distribution from the CEO is totally different.
- An accurate accounting data must include ledger that can account for accurate amount of income and expenses, receipts, and other evidential data that is recognized by the government in addition to the statement reports like the ones you see in the end-year tax adjustment papers. SM’s claims on profit distribution between the artist and the management company are not credible mainly due to SM’s failure to produce these documentary data. In order to resolve this doubt and to be able to claim fairness in the profit distribution, SM should not reveal only an abridged version of financial statements but also the actual account books, expense receipts, and contract in Japan and other relevant documents as the three members’ requested in preservation of evidence request. The fallacy in HoTels logic is that they only focus on the numerical ratio that SM insists on that they fail to consider the net profit after expenses, taxes, activity costs, and etc(Reference: Link). This may indicate that the majority of people who spread these rumors are composed of underage minors, students, housewives, freelancers, or self-employed who has no need to report their income to the government, or an employer who prioritize his or her own profit over anything like SM. As revealed in the song written by Park Yu Chun included in JYJ’s Music Essay “Their Rooms,” SM not only refuses to disclose “detailed account statement,” but also keep the books without accurate and necessary documents. Aware of this bookkeeping practice of SM’s, JYJ’s judicial representative, “Sejong,” requested for a preservation of evidence to the court as these documents are important evidence in this civil trial. As a response, SM tried to get this request dismissed using one of its old and shallow tricks, but this was stopped short by the judge. Still, SM has failed to produce these data and documents to the court, JYJ, and Sejong to current February 2011. Thus, it would be safe to conclude that SM did not make its profit distribution process transparent to the artists by following a proper procedure, and neglected to keep a clean book based on accurate records of its income and expenses.
- As it was reported, TVXQ’s individual activities started from Jaejoong starring in a movie, “Postman to Heaven” in October, 2008. However, individual activities planned in a group are notified to the all members (i.e. who is appearing on a drama, and who will be releasing a solo album, and sorts) and profit is divided among the members equally. Conventionally, individual activities are not something that is notified to a single person and profits one member of the group. Rather such information and the profit are shared within the group. Then, the individual activities the family were referring to at 625 meeting (appearance on a drama and a CF), the one that some members were not aware of until later, implies that someone proposed this project to only certain individuals while isolating the rest of the group from this information. This reflects that SM has chosen a different course of action than before, as to influence the members in ways such as emphasizing the difference between the members and comparing them, and/or turning them against each other. Discriminating the members from one another has been SM’s traditional way of dissolving its boy bands from the H.O.T. days – like proposing renewal of the contract to only some members while dropping other members cold. Every time that happened, SM stayed in the background while the individual members staying with SM made official statements through press conferences or interviews that they decided to break up because of conflict between the members and not because of a specific problem with the management (such as contracts?). What does SM have got to lose? Why wouldn’t SM have done the same to TVXQ?
2. Summary of HoTels’ Claims
HoTel’s attacks on the 625 meeting can be summarized as below:
1) At 625 meeting, Junsu, Yuchun, Jaejoong and their family label Yunho and Changmin as traitors because they stayed with SM, and encouraged the fans to spread the words about the two members’ betrayal.
2) The three members and their family wanted TVXQ to disband.
3) Three members’ family used the fans to spread malicious rumors about contracts in Japan, 9:1 ratio in distribution of profit, and unequal individual activities, etc.
These claims are only made by those who are busy trying to defame the purpose of 625 meeting.
And it is undeniable that it is the five members of TVXQ themselves who sincerely want TVXQ and its music to live on more than anyone else.
Based on this premise, HoTel’s claim that ‘the three wanted to label the two as traitors and wants to see TVXQ disband’ is simply ridiculous. If they want to produce rumors that will benefit Yunho and Changmin, shouldn’t they be pondering, at the very least, what they could do for the five to be together as TVXQ, and who could possibly be interfering with TVXQ’s conciliation?
Credit: dctvxqgall
Shared by: JYJ3
JYJ3 
it’s vicious, what these people/antis are doing just to defame not only JYJ but also their family.
the article is correct. there are still agents doing the same thing the former DNBN admin had done before to make sure JYJ will gain antis by manipulating information to SME’s advantage and make it look as if they were protecting HM’s image.
i seriously hope that JYJ will win this and all those selfish bloggers, site admins and other malicious rumor-makers will learn their lesson and learn how to be responsible fans.
i remember when i first heard about the three wanting to “leave SM because they were not allowed to participate in the cosmetic business”— i believed this, but there was not a moment where i thought jyj was at fault. to me, from the beginning i blamed SM for stopping them, but now knowing that it had nothing to do with the cosmetic business made me happy that even lies could not blind me from the truth.
I’m curious, in Japan do most of the fans (Bigeast) support JYJ or HoMin?? Also are they being informed about the whole situation? I mean rightfully informed not misinformed by false rumors and stuff from the HoTel girls or stuff from truetvxq.
In Japan most are OT5. But Hotel girls and Avex (I assume) did a good job of spreading negative rumors when JYJ fans/OT5 fans weren’t willing to take action. So the assumption is a lot of BE have stopped supporting JYJ as a group but they still support them as individuals. AKA JJ fans will always be JJ biased, but they have a negative impression of JYJ as a group.
But, now the truth is opening up to them too. Especially since the recent court wins. BE have also done the Billboard support messages.
Hope that helped!
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Looking for JYJ friends on twitter to spazz with and get to know. Fandom is more fun with friends. Add me please? I am PheonixiaJJ
As much as Hotels want to make JYJ look bad in the US I don’t think it’s going to happen. We Americans don’t think the same way as the Korean fans. Popularity is based on merit and JYJ proved themselves with The Beginning. I am not a TVXQ fan and would never have heard of JYJ if it wasn’t for this lawsuit. Curiosity made me read everything I could find on this issue and I didn’t believe a word SM or anyone else connected to them had to say about them. When I heard about the 13 yr contract I was appalled, I couldn’t believe that SM could get away with it. What I’m trying to say is that most fans around the world side with JYJ and not SM. Hotels can keep it up cuz it doesn’t matter what they say. I just think it’s so sad that fans can turn on their idols and call them traitors. I’m glad that I’m a US fan. One more thing, even though I’m not a TVXQ fan I would never bash them or disrespect their decision to stay with SME.
“What I’m trying to say is that most fans around the world side with JYJ and not SM.”
Sometimes it seems that way, but I don’t know. Just yesterday I was on DBSKnights site and in the chatbox were some worldwide fans who don’t read anything lawsuit-related because they said all lawsuit posts are “bashing” and they think if SM wins the lawsuit, TVXQ will reunite as 5. Maybe it’s just a few fans, but I do see comments like that in various places and it makes me wonder how many worldwide fans truly support JYJ.
The more I’ve read about the lawsuit, about SME, about the things that happened since 2009, the more I want to support JYJ by buying their albums, promoting their music to people, giving money for bus ads or whatever. But I see fans who think supporting JYJ means there will never be a reunited TVXQ, or they think supporting JYJ = hating HoMin (I definitely don’t hate HoMin!), or they just don’t want to hear about the lawsuit and it’s easier for them to think it’s about the cosmetics business, because someone told them so and isn’t it simple to believe something without thinking about it…
I hope you’re right, though.
Oh, DBSKnights is overflowing with fake all-five fans. They are very hateful there, but they don’t represent the international fandom and who they support.
There are more pro-JYJ fans than there are antis.
A lot of the JYJ fans would rather lurk in the background than post on forums and fansites so don’t worry about it.^_^
*Maybe “overflowing” wasn’t the right word.XD
More like, they’re very visible at DBSKnights.
Chatbox is where a lot of them love to congregate.
it doesn’t help when one of admins are YJ overboard…
diff point-of-view fans were blocked from posting tho..
@sakana17
I’ve seen that same thread if you will. But something else I’ve noticed, some not all, all very young. They pretty much range in the middle-high school age bracket. Some of them post their ages as 14-19 years of age. I saw one where she mentioned, her father wanted to know why she was still up so late on her laptop and needed to go bed. So, I wouldn’t place too much concern about their fantasies. They may not be anti, but they seem to be too immature to care about human rights. But remember, it’s some of them, not all.
DBSKnights say they’re pro-TVXQ5 so that’s probably why most of the people who go on the chatbox say they have no bias so they don’t get any negative comments back or so they don’t get blocked by the admins.
And I agree with bmw81187, “A lot of the JYJ fans would rather lurk in the background…”
I am the same as you except I have known of TVXQ and have been a fan of their music for quite some time. Although I have to say, in my personal opinion and only my personal opinion, that even here in the US, and even though they are few and far between, there are some who are popular not based on their merit but for other reasons. Won’t reveal who I think those are though. lol But you are right 99.99% if the time popularity is based on merit and I do strongly believe longevity is definitely based on merit.
Your right about some not judged on personal merit, but most are. No one ever mentions that maybe JYJ don’t want to go back to TVXQ. Their music is so different now and they were stiffled when they were with SME. I don’t understand why some people hope they will fail and go back to what made them so unhappy. No disrespect meant toward TVXQ
@Rose I honestly don’t know if they want to go back to TVXQ now or not. I know they don’t want to go back to SM so I suppose as long as the other two are with SM there will be no reunion. I guess time will tell if there ever will be. I love TVXQ’s music with all five but I’m just not into the new TVXQ music. They may come out with something I like in the future but as if now no. However I do like the music of JYJ so far and that is why I am here. Oh and I should clarify that I do believe JYJ is and/or will be popular based on the merit of their music. It’s just too good for them not to be.
@Rose
I think if JYJ and HoMin ever work together as TVXQ, it will have to be after some time has passed. Issues are too raw right now. Even after some of the dust has cleared, they are going to have to come together, and sort things out. Reconciliation only happens after hard, honest, reflection. I think they’ve spent too much time together and shared too much for that to be tossed away like yesterday’s garbage.
The one thing in JYJ’s plus in making that happen…
Once they have established successful careers outside of SME, they are pretty much in the catbird’s seat. Not being beholden, they can set the terms, not SME. As I’ve said before, if SME wants to ‘reward’ HoMin for sticking with them, they will acquiesce and let it happen. This becomes a win-win for both sides. SME gets to have ‘some’ profit, and JYJ gets to fulfill their desire to work together with their brothers.
Same here…
U.S. fans don’t have the cultural issues to deal with. We see things from a different perspective. Although, I knew who TVXQ were, and liked them as a group, when things started to go sour, I went looking for reasons why. The stench was a bit much.
Viewing it from an outsider basis, to me, it was easy to see the manipulation factor involved. Big business does not want to lose their money-maker and will do anything to keep it under their control. Their system would not work over here. U.S. fans are not going to fall as easily for the ‘must honor’ the contract theme either.
Cultural biases are not going to be an issue, so SME & the HoTel girls won’t succeed over here. JYJ’s talent will be a much bigger draw than some developmentally challenged hormonal teenagers’ attempts at sabotage.
So true. Also artists in the US aren’t “trained” by companies and “debuted”, well except maybe Disney kids. lol It’s usually all mutually beneficial to both parties involved in the contract. Not always but the majority of the time.
To Butterflies are Free
Thank you, very well said. You put it into better words than I did. I’m not in the least worried about JYJ’s reputation here in the US. Their talent says it all and that is what we judge entertainers on. Their music is all their own and they don’t have the same sound as alot of the kpopers now. I would bet that JYJ keeps their fans here and gain alot more once they start putting out videos and do their concert. All they need is exposure to win over more hearts.
We don’t know exactly how many people side with JYJ. Some decide to stay by the sidelines, some become fanatics and stalkers, and some research and gain information by facts and not biasness. There are communities, who are not Hotel girls, who spread almost the same information, except that they twist it to their advantage and thus, makes people who are siding homin from the start is lured into thinking that they are correct. I mean, its quite inevitable. If you love something, you want to fight for it, especially if you believe in them. Except that they believe in a contorted information, one that would lead to more hatred towards JYJ. They’re going to keep doing so and probably have more people side with them.
It’s such a shame that this fandom split into 2. And just like the author said, “If they want to produce rumors that will benefit Yunho and Changmin, shouldn’t they be pondering, at the very least, what they could do for the five to be together as TVXQ, and who could possibly be interfering with TVXQ’s conciliation?”
Well some ot5 fans do want SM to win the court case so that TVXQ will unite again.
Even more appalled by the fact that some even want JYJ to fail in the things they do so that they have no choice but to return to SM!!!
Rather than call these people ignorant, i say stupidity and selfishness!!!
That sounds more like immaturity to me. If they have even bothered to read the Court’s decisions it as handed down from day one, they would know better. Immaturity affects so many parts of a person’s character. My guess is, they really can’t understand the more pressing moral issues involved. This SME knows, and uses for their own purposes. In the end, they will be sorely disappointed. I just feel sorry for them more than anything else.
You know no matter what these HoTel girls or anti’s do JYJ will always stay popular and famous. Why? Because they actually have TALENT; they can sing, compose, model, play the piano and have wonderful personalities. Also their perspective on life is different from most of the Korean idols, they want to make a career in which they enjoy their work, its not all about the money for them, they are chose this path because they love music and that says something. Also look at all those famous people that always comment on JYJ, saying how handsome/beautiful, humble, talented, amazing and hardworking they are, I mean there is just no way that these guys are disappearing, if anything they will gain more and more popularity. All those things that anti JYJ fans and mean HoMin fans say are just stupid and delusional cause JYJ an’t going nowhere but up.
Natjj,
“…they are chose this path because they love music and that says something. Also look at all those famous people that always comment on JYJ, saying how handsome/beautiful, humble, talented, amazing and hardworking they are, I mean there is just no way that these guys are disappearing, if anything they will gain more and more popularity.”
As you said, this is what separates them from the others in Kpop. Even though their first two efforts are not ‘perfect’ (don’t get me wrong, I do love them), that’s to be expected. They are not perfect for different reasons, but both efforts show a willingness to step outside the box.
JYJ are willing to take risks, stretch their talents, learn new things, and GROW. Those famous people outside of Kpop appreciate that. They know what it takes, all those things what you mentioned above.
So, it’s possible the guys may lose some along the way, as has been mentioned. They will also win more though. As long as JYJ ‘keep their eyes on the prize’, stay on their path, and the fans along with them, they sky is the limit. Longevity of success comes with staying true to yourself. Fans of artists who accomplish this, know this and are there forever. Just look around the world and see who’s still relevant after 20-40 years.
please dyeh..
I don’t know how those girls’s brain work?
is there any a little tiny bit positive mind in it?
It’s like beating a dead fish over and over again, especially now that the court has made a lot of decisions that has refuted their arguments.
i really hope that jyj will win the lawsuit..
then just wait the reactions of those Hotel girls..they probably claim that judge’ daugthers are huge fans of jyj blah..blah..blah..
lol I assume that too; but they will probably claim that the previous judge was biased and the new judge will be ‘honest’ to the public after SME appeals the decision
——————————————–
Looking for JYJ friends on twitter to spazz with and get to know. Fandom is more fun with friends. Add me please? I am PheonixiaJJ
I don’t care which one is right or which one is wrong… Time would reveal the truth…
However, one thing for sure, I want TVXQ to comeback as five again… And I believe, so does every Cassiopeia in the world…
I will always hope for reunion… or perhaps a collaboration where I can see them once again on stage together… once again listening to 5 beautiful voices molded together in harmony…
But
I prefer seeing JYJ happy with their live then having TVXQ back together under SM when I know JYJ aren’t enjoy working there (and I think Yunho and Changmin aren’t that happy too working under that company)…
So there…
I want them to be able to enjoy their live, overcome every hardship, and be their best… I’ll support them… Because That’s what a fan should do right? Support their idol… :))
Well, if YH and CM aren’t happy there, why do they not leave with their brothers?
Just saying………….
I think, ultimately, it’s their choices.
Be it whether JYJ’s decision to go or HM decision to stay.
I do hope to see one day they stand on the same stage too.
But definately not at the expense of JYJ being forced to return to SM. THAT place is a hellhole for them.
@Butterflies are Free
Your right about much time passing before they could get together. If Homin contract is too long, I’m afraid that JYJ will surpass them in their dreams coming true and both groups will be on different levels with their music. What I can see is TVXQ is still doing the same music where JYJ has a totally differnt style now. I hope in the future they can continue their friendship and the two groups can come together for special performances, but I can’t see JYJ going back to the same old thing that they wanted out of. No creativity with SME for JYJ. I think Homin would have left SME if they were secure enough within themselves to make it without SME, therefore In my opinion I doubt it will happen, but I hope that TVXQ fans get some satisfaction on seeing them together again
Yeah. I think you’re right. I’m seeing their reunion as something like for the fans and such, like a goodwill concert or smthing lyk that.
They might do an album, but it wouldn’t be as extensive as the ones they did before. Most likely, it would be a TVXQ5 version of JYJ’s Their Rooms.
I agree with this, too. It will take a lot of time, and in the meantime I think JYJ will keep excelling at what they do, pushing their boundaries as artists even further. While at SME, I have a lot of sadness for how far HoMin can go there, because SME will be content to keep doing the same old things. And I think HoMin are excellent at what they’re doing now. I watched their comeback stage on Music Bank and thought they blew all the other acts away. (TVXQ5 were the gods for a reason.) But I can’t help thinking that while it’s still great stuff, it’s not meaningful the way JYJ’s music is now. JYJ have put their own thoughts, their own style, their own creativity into an entire album. While SME controls everything HoMin do. I don’t believe JYJ will ever want to go back to a system where they have no control over their music anymore. They’ve proven that they’re willing to sacrifice everything they worked for to gain some control over their lives.
“I think Homin would have left SME if they were secure enough within themselves to make it without SME”
I agree. I also don’t think they’re truly happy there. Why don’t they leave? I can think of lots of reasons. I think of what we know about working at SME, SME’s history of trying to destroy anyone who leaves them, and how hard TVXQ5 worked to get to the top. Junsu said JYJ were willing to take the risk that they would never be singers again, never perform again. That’s a huge risk. Not everyone would be able to face that. I’ve known people who stayed in psychologically and emotionally toxic relationships/environments because they felt “better the devil you know” than facing what might be a worse future. They felt they could cope.
We know now JYJ’s future won’t be worse than what they went through at SME — JYJ fans will make any miracles needed happen to ensure that! But 2 years ago, no one could know what would happen. This is why I have such enormous respect for JYJ, but I don’t judge HoMin; I just feel really bad for HoMin because I don’t think they’re in a good place (physically or emotionally) right now. All the success and hard work they have, promoting SME, could ultimately be every empty rewards.
I loved TVXQ5 passionately and would love to see a reunion in the future, something where all 5 have contributed their own creativity and it’s meaningful for everyone. So I hope for that… one day… but it’s a long way off.
I feel sad too for Homin more than angry….
I also agree with the above comment. I feel that when JYJ finally get the system down and their feet are properly balanced….they will grow in popularity very quickly…..and then even if they wished to become 5 again it wouldn’t be possible because the companies they are working with wouldn’t find it logical.
For that I hope somehow Homin change their style and grow too so that the height is not too far apart. JYJ was also worried about this point and sang about it in the Thanksgiving concert (“Lets not grow too far apart”)
Seeing that JYJ are coming to the States how about letting Oprah know of this. She’s never had a KPOP group on the show and this is her last season. She is friends with Kanye West so maybe she would do it. I’m going to her website and see if she still takes show suggestions. I think it would be great exposure for them and who knows, maybe it would happen.
I just contacted the Oprah show told them briefly JYJ’s situation and asked her to put them on the show. I told her about Kanye West and “The Beginning” and not being able to promote until now.. I gave her a brief explanation of the situation and begged for help. I’m going to mention this on other JYJ pages and see if anyone else will contact the show. Maybe she will put them on if enough people request it.
very good idea!! I will try ,hope more fans will send her request!
@Anva
Thanks and please spread the word around. I’m going to see if I can get to Kanye Wests twitter and leave him a message too.
This is what I’m talking about…reaching out and putting the word out. Will follow right behind you. 🙂
Also, don’t forget Ellen as well. Both she and Oprah were instrumental in promoting Charice Pempengco.
@ButterfliesAreFree
Thanks for the suggestion about Ellen. I need all the help I can get. I tried a twitter to Kanye West to help with Oprah, but I’m not sure it posted. I’ll keep going on this and hope more people follow and tell Oprah and Ellen about JYJ. This could happen if enough people send them messages. If you have any ideas, please tell me, I really want this to happen for them. The exposure will win them alot of fans once people can physically see who they are and how talented they are. Please spread the word
@ButterfliesAreFree
I agree, the more of us who do this the better. A good story is a good story. Especially one that has a human rights issue attached to it.
@ButterFliesAreFree
I just contacted the Ellen show. I told her a little about them and of course mentioned Kanye West to get her to research JYJ. I told her she would like their music and they need exposure. I mentioned C-Jes in case she wanted to contact them
@ButterfliesAreFree
Just posted on Kanye Wests Facebook page. Asked him to please help JYJ get on Oprah. Hope he looks at his page sometime soon.