Avex appeal – Third court hearing
Date: Sept 9th, 2013
Time: 1:10pm
- The appeal did not end today. The issue has not been resolved. C did not agree that A Entertainment should take over from A Management (which is A’s appeal)
- C stated that if C agrees to this issue, it is a disadvantage on C part in case A appeals in a higher court. Settlement talks will still continue.
- Next oral argument is on Oct 30, 1:10 PM.
Establishment of the settlement is expected to happen at that time. - The presiding judge seems a bit troubled thinking that there is no way C will accept the takeover.
Note: A side is trying to say that A Entertainment (as a head company) should take over A Management’s part in this trial. A Management handled JYJ’s activities before and the trial is really against C vs A Management. C does not agree so until today, settlement was not finalized.
Source: @loveJJkaorin
Translated by: Ruby(@rubypurple_fan) of JYJ3
Shared by: JYJ3
“A side is trying to say that A Entertainment (as a head company) should take over A Management’s part in this trial”
I don’t get why would they want to do that? Will they have more leverage on the court then?
A Management is trying to A ent. To pass the bucket… so it will be another round again…. it will just prolong the court hearing. So it will be a disadvantage for cjes and JYJ, until this issue is resolved, their carreer as a singer in japan is on hold, or they may be able to perform but the road is full of obstacles.
And the fight goes on stay strong JYJ stay strong!
ok all you smart people. explain what is happening please. i get the gist of it but not all the implications. i love that there are so many fans that take the time to state how they feel and help us understand everything.:) thank you in advance~
Although I cannot fully understand the legal implications of A’s request, it doesn’t stop me from finding it very questionable.
1. Why take so long since the beginning of this trial to request for the change in Appellant?
2. A Ent., being a parent company, a huge holding company, wouldn’t that disadvantage C in the trial?
Huge = money = time = more appeals = more delays = more bans for our boys.
Also, A Ent. profit is so much more than its subsidiary, A Management. If they decided to pay the damages to C and the various parties as per the verdict in January, wouldn’t USD 7 million damage be peanut to A Ent. profit of more than USD 300 million each year? Is the change to facilitate this payment or allow for creative accounting within A since the impact of the amount is so much smaller to A Ent. than A Management, would that reduce the negotiating powers of C in the settlement?
I agreed with C for rejecting this request from the facts that we have gathered so far, it is right that they took their time to decide on the legal impacts on them for A’s request, even legal professionals need time to research on such legal implications. Who are A to judge that C APPEARED to agree to their request in the previous trial?
Also, why is the judge troubled? Does that mean that the case will not be settled because of C’s non-acceptance of this request? I really wish they do not agree with settlement but go for winning the case instead as per the decision in January or whichever is best for our boys. ^^
Thank you for the explanation. I’m almost explode down there with the incoherent comment…It’s 3 AM and I should be sleeping. A drink of water will flush this much heat…ppfffuuuufff.
@Jaejoong’s Page
Hi. Here’s my question: Is remaining with AVEX in some configuration, whether AVEX Management or the parent company AVEX Entertainment a foregone conclusion (in the minds of AVEX anyway)? Is it a necessity? Is it what AVEX is insisting happen? I thought JYJ had decided to sever ties completely because of the unfair contract amendment they were presented. How can they go back? How can they ever trust them again?
that is one thing i was wondering about. i thought they were done with avex also.
@koreamom
It’s hard to know, really. There may be a situation that could exist via the intervention of AVEX Entertainment for JYJ to finally be presented with terms that they could feel comfortable with. The unfavorable terms of the previous contract were what started the whole problem with AVEX Mgt. in the first place. By resuming an alliance with AVEX the parent company, I am guessing that all doors in Japan would be once again open wide to them. (A very desirable eventuality and a horrific blow to SM.) However, WOULD AVEX insist on removing C-jeS as their managers, for the reasons alleged in the lawsuit? My gut feeling is that JYJ would never agree to that.
thank you for your comment. there are so many factors involved. i really doubt JYJ would be willing to go anywhere without C-Jes and i bet avex knows it. why must everything be so complicated? anyway, i trust JYJ to be cautious and C-Jes to protect their rights. i just hope it can end well for JYJ and they hold out for a finish this time.
@koreamom
Hi. 🙂 Yes, it’s impossible to really know from the info we’ve been given so far. But as butterfliesarefree never tires of saying, the Sejong lawyers, JYJ’s representation, are top notch in their field. They have guided JYJ to several victories in court so far. This will not be settled overnight, there is too much money involved not to mention “face” which may arguably even be more important in Japan than it is in SK. I agree, I just don’t see JYJ abandoning C-jeS after all they’ve been through together for the last 4 years– it would run contrary to everything we know about them. One side note, in the original judgement I found it amazing that AVEX was asked to pay 6.6 million dollars to JYJ after such a relatively short period of time of their activities there in Japan but you see, THAT’S part of the problem. AVEX saw JYJ as a pile of money and got greedy so 3 years later, here we are.
@Lilibaiyu, long time no see, how are you? Personally if Avex offers JYJ a contract to JYJ’s liking, then there should not be a problem and JYJ can go back to Avex. Contract is the only trust you need, if it’s bad, or you think it’s not in your advantage then don’t sign it, but if it’s in your best interest, acceptable and you agree and feel comfortable about it, then go for it and sing it. But with SM it wasn’t just a contract. JYJ’s problem with SM is psychological, personal, emotional. They headed for Japan, mainly Avex, because treatment there was better, and all was left was the contract. Avex was glad to take them in, BUT they soon realized Avex was giving them an un-fair contract.
JYJ’s problem with Avex is the contract, nothing personal, nothing emotional. If the contract is fixed, and JYJ feel it’s in their best interest, then it’s good for JYJ to sign with Avex. There is no love or hate in business, its all about your interests, so if interests don’t clash, then everything should be fine. when it comes to work, a contract that is good and comfortable for you, is the only trust you need.
One thing bothers me about this whole court issue, just one thing, that doesn’t have to do with Avex, SM, or the court itself. The little tiny bitty thing that seriously bothers me, is something about JYJ. JYJ seem to leave court issue to C-jes Completely. In other words, they don’t know what goes on between C-jes and Avex in court no more than we fans do. I only realized this from Junsu. When Junsu was in Germany and he had been told about SM’s withdrawing lawsuits and a settlement had been reached . He said he didn’t know about it, but he is glad it’s over. Lord, how innocent and child-like, I was shocked, He was glad it was over, the problem in this sentence is, that it reflects that he never knew what the settlement reached between C-jes and SM was, BEFORE it was over and done with. This mean that Jaejoong and Yoochun are probably the same as Junsu and don’t know what was the settlement contained before it was settled. All I’m saying is, that Junsu, Jaejoong , Yoochun, now, need to learn about what this settlement Avex is offering. Maybe JYJ would agree to a contract Avex is offering as settlement.
The question is What is Avex talking about? is it about JYJ ? what is C-jes and Avex talking about here? maybe I’m lost, but what if Avex is offering JYJ a good deal after all. I hope no one takes this the wrong way and start acting negative towards C-jes, please don’t think that way. All I’m saying is don’t keep yourself in the dark to feel comfortable, you have to keep yourself aware of your own interest. Ask the company, don’t be the all trusty type ,not saying think ill, just saying keep informed, know whats going on around you, don’t just let someone ells handle it all completely.
I really don’t know, but I don’t think JYJ ask C-jes, they might just think the story will work out if they let C-jes do everything for them, so they let C-jes decide for them like they let C-jes decide the issue with SM. Does the lawyer tell JYJ ? or does the lawyer tell C-jes because C-jes paid him?
I can never blame C-jes if C-jes decide for JYJ, because JYJ ask them to decide for them for one, and for two, because JYJ are supposed to be grown ups now and know how to mind their interests, follow up on it, but then I blame SM because it always treated them like children, recal the earnings account? When did JYJ ask SM to show them that ? on year of debut ? the year after ? the third ? They Don’t ASK. so they aren’t used to be in the front of business deals. Independence that JYJ have is not really complete, and may not exist in all areas. I just feel, because court issue bothers them, JYJ might put them own selves in the dark willingly, like with SM’s settlement, all they wanted was for it to be over, and didn’t care if there was a settlement or not. They completely trust their company, completely, and that’s just what a child would do, utter trust. Personally I too would ignore the court issues , because yes it’s emotionally tiring and I have work and don’t need to take my energy on something my company can handle, BUT if there is a settlement then I would like to know what this settlement is about, because maybe I’d agree to it and maybe I wouldn’t, but at least I’d know what it was Before it’s over and done with. What’s the point telling me after ?
Anyway, everything is in Korean and I’m not really there to know any hard facts, and maybe I got lost in translation somewhere.
So what Avex offers JYJ ? What does Avex want, we really don’t know.
As for this, Avex management taking over, they could just mean to keep the ban longer by extended the issue. C-jes did well by rejecting this, end it with avex is better than to start all over again with a new side. I wouldn’t be surprised if LSM was among Avex’s shareholders. Avex itself has over 9600 shareholders last time I checked, that’s allot of shareholders which mean by end year Avex has allot of people to pay, so pleasing one of them by blocking JYJ is not difficult to see. Avex is extending the ban because LSM wishes to keep JYJ blacklisted till they enter the army. Maybe that’s the plan.
@Kalus
Hi! How are you doing, I’ve been fine, madly busy with my business but trying to keep up with JYJ too. 🙂 Yes, it’s like I said earlier today – this short, cryptic summation is just not enough info to be able to know much of anything. I really do agree though that with AVEX it really was a contract issue and perhaps an immediate emotional pull-back based on what they had just been through with SM. Remember, then they were finally having the benefit of excellent attorneys advising them whereas before when they originally signed with SM they had NO attorney whatsoever. But their time working with AVEX in Japan after the split had been happy and terrifically productive and successful. So there was not the bad blood that had finally overwhelmed them after years of misery with SM. Personally, I believe that Jaejoong is very capably on top of the business and communicating with Sejong although it really wouldn’t surprise me if Yuchun were also vitally interested and involved as well. They are the oldest and Jaejoong seems to be the leader although I got into terrible trouble asserting that on Facebook awhile back. lol But that’s all speculation and the bottom line is we just don’t know so many things… it’s madly frustrating but perhaps C-jeS doesn’t realise that there are many older, more mature international fans with backgrounds in the law and the music business, etc who would want to know these things. Perhaps they would not want to tell us in any case.
@Lilibaiyu, glad your doing fine, I missed your comments allot, glad to come across you now. Sorry to hear you got judged based on your opinion, in my opinion JYJ’s leader is Jaejoong and I hope no one bashes me over that too. Yup, when they were in Japan, that’s what woke them up, they felt relaxed and they lived in Japan 4 years right? so they couldn’t get back to the way they were treated, in one of their early interviews, they all would say, wouldn’t it be nice to work in an environment where company and star are equals, Junsu said something like that. some thing JYJ left, but no SM drove them out with their superiority over them, SM forgot these are human beings, hurt them and they will runaway from you. I hope I could tell LSM this one day, that its him who drove them out. If he wanted to keep them, he should have given them their room.
anyway, yeah, I thought court was open for public, guess not. No one seems to know anything except Avex trying to stall with it’s request to have someone ells meet C-jes at court, that’s all I understood. And your right we don’t know we just assume and speculate. Most of what I say are assumptions mostly.
@Kalus
“Sorry to hear you got judged based on your opinion’
lol It happens kind of regularly, actually. 😀 Goes with the territory I guess when you actually have your own opinions.
You said ” Junsu said something like that. some thing JYJ left, but no SM drove them out with their superiority over them, SM forgot these are human beings, hurt them and they will runaway from you.”
Now this I really really agree with 100%. We’ve all debated “Who Really Broke Up DBSK” until we’re all sick to death of it but the truth is, it was neither JYJ of Homin it was LSM. There’s no possible doubt it was his doing. He bullied them, threatened them and refused to give on any point. Some of the members got scared and stayed (and no kidding- I’m sure it was damned scary being yelled at by LSM!) and some members said “That’s it. We can’t do this anymore.” We all know who did what. JYJ didn’t originally want to leave at all, they just wanted a fairer deal after all their successes, and any music business exec in his right mind would have seen the value of these three and given them what they were asking for. But not LSM. This entire debacle has been at his behest, it is his doing, he’s called the shots right down the line. And STILL, people who say they “love” one group or the other support SM. Amazing.
About being judged for you’r opinion, what I learned is you can avoid being attacked by not saying your opinion, but then you’ll be someone without an opinion, a person who doesn’t say what they really think, their personality disappears .
People are human and some people are wrong or they can’t see how wrong they are, even the people who are right are only right to some degree. No one is perfect and no one is complete, time passes , and as time passes, our minds grow, and our understanding of things change, due to more experience, interaction ect. Sometimes others help us understand better by giving us what they know, and sometimes it’s up to us to go through more life experience in order to learn.
We all, are learning beings, But at least we formed our own ideology, our own conviction, made a choice we think is right, we deem right for us.And we went with what we see is right. Sometimes you can have them understand what your seeing, not necessarily agree with you but at least they can see what you see. But sometimes it’s useless to try explain because they won’t open to any other thought but their own, or someone ells’s they agree to, and become biased and can not see not even try to give a chance just to see , another side of thought just because it came from someone ells.
Some who disagree are not wicked, but some act wickedly, that’s where the line must be drawn. There is no reason for anyone to bully, harass, or hurt another for having an opinion.Differences should stop at, I don’t agree, I don’t believe that, I think that’s wrong, even saying that’s wrong , and that’s right, this should be and that shouldn’t be, that’s all different opinions, but it should never expand to an attack, a fight a bullying or a harassment.
It’s impossible to be perfect, humans can get angry when surprised or hearing something new, especially something they think differently about.
Let me share and experience, you can skip that part if you want. There was this guy, he said to me your wrong, it was about something and he was aggressive to me because I said something opposite to his conviction, so I told him, “listen don’t attack me, just understand I don’t see it like you do because my knowledge could be either limited or more than what you have, we don’t have minds exactly the same, so I can’t think the same way you do, maybe your right because you have better knowledge than me, but to me I am right because I possess I specific type of knowledge that makes me believe what I have told you is right, I’m only sharing it with you because I respect you, if I didn’t respect you, I’d be lying to you, yes you’d be pleased about what you hear, but its a lie. There’s nothing wrong to be different, Your wrong to me, but I never hate you or want any harm to come to you, because I know you only say what you think is right, and it’s the same to me, so please respect my mind like I respect yours ” we had a longer conversation, most of this was cut with aggressiveness in between but it gradually cooled, that same aggressive guy calmed down more he threw more questions and accusations at me, and he was silently hearing me out more than talking. In the end he said some things, but nothing aggressive this time, and just before we parted he told me he was sorry he treated me that way, and he hoped that I would see how wrong I am and he wished me peace. I told him, if I am wrong, then I hope I can see that too, but for now I don’t see it, I thanked him and he left, but I felt he felt confused, and was trying to run away from me. He didn’t want to hear anymore, because he was never used to hearing a different opinion than the one he only knows. But his hostility vanished, maybe even regretted it, but at least now he knows, just because someone says, what they see outrageous, doesn’t deem ill behavior from them. So don’t be shaken from others aggressiveness towards you, over something you said that you see it right. If we don’t have different opinions, we can’t come to a better understanding of a matter, and opinions disappear when simple opinions are attacked, I myself am still learning and trying to leave others to their opinions too even though sometimes I dislike some opinions myself, I’m learning to become wiser.
thank you lots for sharing your thoughts on this. you speak a lot of wisdom. it is hard for me to put things into words so i am mostly a silent observer and taking it all in and trying to decide how i feel and what others’ mean. i don’t like to be attacked for my opinions either. i want to be respected for my opinion to the same degree that they want that for theirs. if you feel strongly about something it is hard to take the emotions out of it sometimes and that is where the attacking or hostility plays in. anyway, thanks for expressing those thoughts! and @lilibaiyu, it happens to all of us but don’t stop saying how you feel or understand things. it helps me!
@Kalus
Wow, thank you for sharing your thoughts on this with me, I appreciate it. For a while there I was prefacing each comment I wrote with “this is just my opinion of course” or something like that but after a while I just felt like, ‘do people really need me to keep saying that?’ It seems so self evident. I think everyone finds and decides to follow JYJ for their own reasons – something about them, who they are, their talents, the situation they find themselves embroiled in, they speak to each of us on a deep or not so deep level and perhaps it’s different for everyone. I am quite a bit older than the rest of JYJ’s fans and I have had many life experiences that others have not had so my perspective is bound to be different than many although certainly not all, not my any stretch. I’ve always found there are people who agree and some who don’t. That’s fine with me too – like you, I enjoy expressing my opinion and discussing things. I think it’s fine that others have differing opinions and I enjoy giving mine. It seems very very unfortunate when people seem threatened by that.
@koreamom
Thanks for the vote of confidence, koreamom – I appreciate it. 🙂 But you see…. I can’t stop giving my opinions, my real ones, not tidied up, safe, politically correct nonsense based on what others feel is appropriate. That’s not gonna happen. When I stop giving my honest and considered opinions, I guess that will be the day I stop commenting on JYJ. And of course I expect to hear differing views many times. I think that’s fine. What I don’t think is so fine is to told that my own views are somehow dangerous and must not be expressed. This always shocks me because I just assume that by now, as regards JYJ, everyone knows my heart. It will always lie on the side of the members of JYJ.
@Lilibaiyu, your welcome, You and @ butterfliesarefree2 always put in allot of reason behind what you gals say, the reasoning is what make comments enjoyable, and more agreeable. Those who feel threatened won’t see the better reasoning and won’t be able to see where they went wrong but that’s okay as long as they don’t act aggressive and attack. That’s why there’s a saying respect who is older than you, it’s because they have more life experience so they can see from an advanced angle the younger can’t yet see, so the logic will differ unless they listen. listening is part of respect and that allows info to be exchanged, that way people will get to know things better and advance to the best opinion much faster.
@Koreamom big hugs to you, I understand how you feel exactly, and how Lilibaiyu must have felt, and like you said it happened to all of us.
@Kalus
“I understand how you feel exactly, and how Lilibaiyu must have felt, and like you said it happened to all of us.”
It’s true, of course. It has happened to everybody who has a carefully thought out opinion and/or, and here’s my occasional bugaboo, a passionately held conviction. Those will occasionally get me in trouble. 🙂 One of the people I work with, who knows me very well, has told me that sometimes when I write to her regarding our work-in-progress it seems to her that I am being very stern and well, not very nice. This always shocks me because I think I was being so diplomatic! lol But now I know that when we write online, often people don’t understand our basic benevolence, our passion for our subject when we are expressing our views. So I have gotten into the habit of apologising when someone actually takes what I write personally. Of course, it’s NEVER personal. It’s only about the subject at hand.
Hi Kalus!
It’s really nice to see you here again!
I was interested in your recollection of what Junsu said when the lawsuit with SM was settled, so I went back to look at it.
Junsu is quoted as saying that he heard about the settlement when leaving for Germany, and that he did not know all the details.
If you look back at what he said it may come across as less naive to you.
In my own experience with a lawsuit, there are points which are crucial and non negotiable, points which are important but could be modified slightly and points you negotiate away without much regret. Junsu not knowing all the details, of a case that was resolved right before leaving for a concert half way across the world does not strike me as particularly childish. He may also be avoiding having a long legal discussion in a press conference.
I struggled with deciding if I should reply. I truly am glad you are back posting Kalus, and find your comments interesting, thoughtful and heartfelt. I don’t want to offend you or anyone else. But I feel that Junsu handled himself very well in the press conference and wanted to let you know.
I have no idea why A wanted the change, it is possible that this is part of the settlement negotiation with C. Until there is some solid settlement outcome, I don’t see the need to accept this change, knowing how cunning these big boys are. They might turn around and bite C. It is possible to start a whole new round of litigation and C will be on losing ground because the trouble started with A Management. Why are they suing A Ent.? Whatever happened in between is not a subject matter by the time A decides to turn around to bite, they are going to claim that A Management and A Entertainment are 2 separate entities and A Entertainment do not have any trouble with C.
The most absurd reason I have read pertaining this change request was that CEO of A management now works for A Entertainment instead. To me it is absurd because that’s A’s internal issue. If I were the judge and given this reason, I would resolve this by telling A to moving their CEO back to A management and solve their problem themselves.
As for our boys going back to A, there is every possibility, Ayumi sued A too but she is still working with A after the law suit is resolved. I don’t think A are some Stupid Morons who bear grudges forever, for A probably money comes first instead of grudges.
thank you for this explanation. it helps me although it is so hard to really understand what is happening. my simple mind cannot fathom being so underhanded and selfishly greedy but there are many people in the world that don’t bat an eyelash to be mean and cruel, unfair and just downright dishonest. and yeah, i want a total win this time.
As I completely understand now is that JYJ has appointed CJeS as their management company from the beginning. Avex has annulled the agreement while they became as JYJ Japanese agency….thus what is left is CJeS is the only agency that manage JYJ either on Korean soil or Japanese soil or where ever soil is there on earth! Full stop!
Stop running around the bushes to claim more time and stop recollecting the remnant, Avex. Be bold and rest the case!
Why not just put the stuff in Spanish… I might have a better chance of understanding this mess
Where is Lil when I need her??
@pinky lee
I’m over here puzzling over the cryptic haiku of a “summary” above… Frankly, there’s just not enough of anything for me to know WHAT it all means…
🙂
JYJ is fighting against 2 giant companies SM and Avex. It shows their courage,it shows the darkest side of the ent industry in SK and Japan. How interesting.
The’ve gone this far. , , , JYJ fighting!!! We can see how strong our boys are . . . Thanks too to C-jes for fighting with JYJ 🙂
I guess Yoochun daughter will make her debut and this shit will be still not resolved.
hahhahaha…..i just dizzi when read those work and read your comment…hahahaha ^__________^
LOL, this makes my day!
A just doing these so that JYJ would never have a chance to promote in Japan before enlistments. A need to move on or burn in hell
Yup, right on. It seemed like that to me too. A taking over just means more hearings from the new side.
For Avex, this is just a delaying tactic. They want JYJ out of Japan market and it looks like this is their only method of doing that.
i agree. i hope they fall on their faces and it will end. soon. and JYJ will be the ones holding the big fat win sticker!
Geez. Leave JYJ alone, you bullies!
Correct me if I’m wrong.. All this lawsuit start not because of the contract right.. Since some of you here said it because of contract.. I’m in super confuse here.. Didn’t JYJ/Cjes sue Avex because Avex interfere with JYJ activity when they try do a charity concert before?
JYJ contract are long ended when the lawsuit start.. Avex prohibited JYJ to work with Cjes to promote their worldwide album ‘The Beginnning’ since they claim the CEO Baek have criminal record.. Something like that.. I’m not sure either.. JYJ refuse of Avex new demanded and because of that, Avex announced to suspend all of JYJ’s Japanese activities.. No??
We are still about that contract ..but Avex appeals to have Avex Entertainment<< main company, to take over from Avex Management<< the sub. company (the offender). This will prolong the trial and will put CJeS in disadvantage ( that is what I understand) in terms of money used for trial..time….I guess this will not over even after they are out from MS…huhh!
@jyjing
“Correct me if I’m wrong.. All this lawsuit start not because of the contract right.. “
Hi – Well, no. I mean not exactly. 🙂 JYJ had signed a contract with AVEX they felt they could live with happily and they were performing extraordinarily well under it, in fact they were so successful at everything they did that AVEX for some reason we may never know decided all of a sudden 8 or perhaps 9 months into the original contract to present them with a new, amended contract that they insisted JYJ sign with far less advantageous terms. It fact, my guess is that it represented a real step backwards for JYJ and their highly efficient and knowledgeable lawyers told them so. In fact, I would imagine they advised the guys not to sign the new contract. It’s easy to believe AVEX management just got greedy when they saw all the money instantly rolling in from JYJ’s activities but perhaps it has even more sinister implications than that since AVEX was still in business with SM in some fashion. At any rate, all of the bad talking, threats, accusations about C-jeS’ Mr Baek having mob ties, etc. etc. happened after JYJ refused to sign the amended contract, with AVEX just finally suspending their activities indefinitely. Keep in mind, the original contract they signed first was still in force. That’s why they have been hamstrung in Japan all of this time.
@lilibaiyu, Max Matsura himself has ties with Yakuza and the public seem to believe he get drugs from his ties with Yakuza, even though Avex say that Matsura use drugs is just a rumor. Allot of Avex’s scandal was published this year in a Japanese magazine. And Matsura had quite a portion regarding these scandals. I don’t know if its true or just a rumor, just saying a Japanese mag published things that are nasty about Avex, and Avex deems those articles as rumors. All that I know is Avex is a big bully for blocking JYJ’s activities, it wont be a surprise if Avex is as dirty as much as it’s a bully like it’s business partner, SoMeone.
@Kalus
Yes, I actually saw that expose’ (or a translation of it anyway) and it was pretty damning, shocking actually. It really made you shake your head in wonder that the man could be this much of a hypocrite, now all made blatantly public, but with Max, I guess it’s all in a days’ work.
” but with Max, I guess it’s all in a days’ work. ”
LOL, so true.
He ruined him own self. It’s his choice in life, he got only himself to blame and to take responsibility for his own actions. He’s a tyrant if all he did is true, but we know blocking JYJ is true, so we know he is not a person on the side of justice or what’s fair.
@jyjing
I think it’s safe to say this does all stem from the original contract. In the first place the ink wasn’t dry on the original before Avex decides it wants to renegotiate. You sign in April 2010 and want to redo in June 2010. Why? To me, there were so many questions about this…looking at the enormous profit from the Thanksgiving concerts and what this could portend for the future…being in cahoots with SME to start off with and plan putting this noose around the necks of JYJ to completely shut them down…this list could completely go off the charts.
It was probably very unsettling when Avex found out about the work on the English language album that could spell exposure for JYJ outside of Japan, and they not have any stake in it.
When the terms of the original contract – still with wet ink on it – are redesigned in such a way as to look a lot like the restrictive nonsense they just left with SM, what made them think JYJ would go for that?
Mr. Baek’s background was not unknown. What Avex was being disingenuous about was the fact that Mr. Baek paid his debt for his mistake, end of discussion. This is now a new day. The guys were satisfied with their arrangement. People tend to forget, the first line of defense for JYJ was their association with Sejong Law firm. This is a very savvy group of people who would not have allowed the guys to hook themselves up in a situation that was disadvantageous. When CJeS became the management rep for JYJ, they took on the role of management and speaking for JYJ in all matters that pertain to their professional careers. That is what they are paid to do. And they have been doing a damn good job of it. Such a good job, that the members of JYJ are now, in less time under SME, more solvent than they ever could have dreamt to be. They are also free to conduct themselves in all aspects of their lives as they choose to do.
None of this would be possible under a contract that controls everything they do, or how their monies are divvied up. Avex knew ahead of time what they were proposing. This was a way of entangling JYJ, it was a trap. Only this time, the guys are older, smarter, and more aware of what BS smells like at this point.
The better question that should be on everyone’s mind which I believe @Kalus was referring to…Avex intentionally used the Entertainment group to enter into the contract dispute instead of the Management head. But bringing the Head in as a part of the legal action, allows them to string this along. This is another delaying tactic. And given the nature of legal loops and holes, this is how the system gets gamed. But in the end, they will still lose. Just like SME did in Korea.
The reason for Junsu saying he had no idea about the outcome, you pay someone else to do the grunt work for you. That is what they are suppose to do. Your Management staff works with your Legal staff to take care of your business. Ok, you may not have immediate answers right away when a reporter sticks a mike in your face, but you will get the information when it’s time to go over strategy. I don’t think anyone should ever assume the members of JYJ aren’t being clued in on what is being done on their behalf. They are too smart for that not to happen.
@BAF
“You sign in April 2010 and want to redo in June 2010. Why?”
Holy Cats! It was only 3 months? Wow, I thought it was like 8 or so. My mistake above. But after 3 months – that’s just really suspicious. Not to mention, seen from the outside of things, mickey mouse class unprofessional. JYJ’s attorneys must have looked at the new deal and just said, “Uh, we don’t think so.” And I agree with BAF that seen in this light, simple greed takes a backseat to a plan all along between SM and AXEX. Get them locked into a new contract (which AVEX did ) and then shut them down completely in Japan when they refused to sign the new agreement.
@My VE Sister
See, that’s the part that has ALWAYS bothered me. It just doesn’t make sense. Most contracts in most situations don’t start coming up for review until about 6-8 months before it expires, or unless there is a dire need to readdress some important issue. But less than 3 mos.! Come on! No way. This contractual term was what, 2-3 years? It was suppose to run out sometime early this year, or at the end of last year?
My guess is, the arrangement to sell back their shares to SME was all part of the big lure. That took place in June 2010. They were the second biggest shareholder after LSM. They had almost 14% of SM stock. If they are seen as severing ties with SM, the guys would trust them more. No? Then they go full throttle to appear to be friends for life with Maxie tweeting his ass off trying to appear cool, until S**T starts looking funky. Then he begins to look/sound like something from the Twilight Zone.
@BAF
Here is what we always have to keep in mind when we try to puzzle out what happened — first with DBSK: they represented BIG, BIG, BIG money to SM. Huge dough. Many many millions. Which is why it’s so darn hard to figure why LSM did what he did. As I’ve said before and I’ll say it again, his “no negotiation possible” position with JYJ was the WORST single fiscal decision EVER in K-Pop history.
Then we move to AVEX: in a matter of a couple of months, MILLIONS were flowing into their coffers due to JYJ – the TD concert, the Japanese language releases. Immediately, ridiculous amounts of money. What appers to have happened is that AVEX seized this opportunity to offload the SM stock that they knew would be heading downwards now that the Platinum Cash Cow was out of the barn and gone, never to return. Yes, smart move in terms of that very large and costly chunk of stock but… are they now thinking that perhaps they’d like to try to also get JYJ back as well??
If it were ME, if I was JYJ’s advisor, I’;d say to AVEX right about now “OK, maybe if you fire Matsuda. Having done that, we want a new even more advantageous contract based on past performance and future performance.”
I guess we’ll see what shakes out.
🙂
from what has been said and what i remember, i think i agree with your comments~this is how i remember events that happened with avex.
@Butterfliesarefree2 you said ” The reason for Junsu saying he had no idea about the outcome, you pay someone else to do the grunt work for you. That is what they are suppose to do. Your Management staff works with your Legal staff to take care of your business. Ok, you may not have immediate answers right away when a reporter sticks a mike in your face, but you will get the information when it’s time to go over strategy. I don’t think anyone should ever assume the members of JYJ aren’t being clued in on what is being done on their behalf. They are too smart for that not to happen. ”
Sounds very reasonable. But I wasn’t saying they weren’t being clued in, I was saying I had a feel they don’t follow up because they might be the trusty trusty type, once someone treats you well and you feel comfortable with them, you let them handle everything for you completely and may not ask them to clue you in, not being involved willingly, that’s what I thought I clarified. anyway, I agree with all you said, I just find it funny that Matsura got what he deserved now, he threw a scandal at Baek and now the tables have turned on him. A magazine, Shunkan Bunshun scandalizes Matsura on Yakuza and drugs, Avex replied it’s rumor, but the public don’t seem to believe Avex, and it happened this year. Avex doesn’t have a good reputation right now.
@Kalus
Matsura has shown himself to be a GIGANTIC liability to this company and he needs to go. Actually I expect to hear that he has, any day now.
@lilibaiyu , I don’t follow up on Matsura’s fate, but I too think Avex is going to fire him after what happened, but who knows.
@Kalus
“But I wasn’t saying they weren’t being clued in, I was saying I had a feel they don’t follow up because they might be the trusty trusty type, once someone treats you well and you feel comfortable with them, you let them handle everything for you completely and may not ask them to clue you in, not being involved willingly, that’s what I thought I clarified.”
I think what can be applied to this part of your comment is that the members of JYJ have been with Sejong long enough to have established an association where they know and understand each other. The firm has been looking out for them for so long, the relationship is very tight. You develop a “feel” for how each other responds. It’s all good. And like any good lawyer/client relationship, there a measure of trust. The guys are big on needing trust. 😉
@BAF
“I think what can be applied to this part of your comment is that the members of JYJ have been with Sejong long enough to have established an association where they know and understand each other. ”
Yep, I really agree with you there. Sejong is a class act and they have shown JYJ over the months that they are in it to win it, they are in it to do right by JYJ and that they can be trusted to be careful and wise in every decision they make. This is NOT their first rodeo. In a sense, it is JYJ’s because before they left SM they never had the benefit of ANY attorney, let alone one as high profile as Sejong.
Is it any wonder then that they completely trust these people?
@BAF @Lili @Kalus @Koreamom
I miss all good comments like this ….thanks for sharing ^^
@anva1
And *I* miss YOU! Please post more~
xxoo
You’re welcome @ anva1 hope your doing well. And glad you enjoyed the comments like we do.
@anva1
Hello my dear sister. It’s always good to see and hear from you. 🙂
Wow thanks all for answering my question.. Aishhh things just get complicated neee.. WTH with this two big evil company keep bothering JYJ.. greedy much..
hmphhh…Okay..Next oral argument is on Oct 30, 1:10 PM…
but thanx for all the info, statements bout this guys..I’ve learned a lot by reading here^^
I’m comforting my self here by saying that regardless everything, JYJ members are doing mighty fine. Yoochun had blossomed magnificently after they left SM. Who imagined that little dorky Micky of DBSK with ridiculous hairstyle, would one day becoming one of the best and most powerful actor in Korea? His future is solid. Jaechunsu times in military service will not lessen their popularity. The fans will wait anxiously and the waiting will make their comeback spectacular. JYJ members achievement, be it’s in a group or as individual will be the hardest slap on SM face forever.