Part I: JYJ and Cosmetics Business
“Who is Forever?” is an incredibly insightful and informative article written by Moto of “Moto’s Planet” (http://blog.naver.com/xdrugx). It is an absolute must-read for all JYJ fans and anyone who wishes to know more about the fan war and the lawsuit. It is an extremely long article containing information about many topics; therefore I have decided to translate and post it in several parts.
Q. Who is “Forever”?
A. The one who started this nasty fan war.
“Once upon a time in a village far away, lived five men. One day…” seems to be the right way to start the story. My goodness, do I have to repeat this old story again? However, one thing I have noticed from observing the whole TVXQ situation is the fact that the fans have extremely little knowledge, and this ignorance is the result of “negligence by the ones who know”, “avoidance by the ones who must know”, and “brainwashing done to those who don’t know”. Avoiding the truth may have seemed to be the better way until now, but, from now on, it will be, more or less, a crime. So let us be fans who “know”.
First, regarding the Cosmetics Business:
Everyone knows that Jaejoong, Junsu, and Yoochun started the cosmetics business as a sideline. The size of the business started out very small, comparable to sales done by a group of ajummas in the neighborhood. Anti-JYJ fans always argue that the percentage of the shares owned by the three members is over 60%. However, the total amount invested was no more than $100,000(USD) altogether, and the percentage, regardless of how high it is, does not matter. After all, there is no law that limits the amount of investments of a celebrity.
Back when the three members started the business, some fans actually wished the other two would join as well. The three members invested their own money in a small but growing company. The way their business was run was that they were each given an executive position (lol) only due to the size of their investments, and their parents, or older sisters in Jaejoong’s case, opened small offices where fans visited to sometimes have conversations about the members with their family. Anti-JYJ fans often bring up the executive positions in their arguments, but the positions were obviously just names. I would assume the members’ involvement included not much more than receiving reports about their investments and revenues for fiscal quarters. They were definitely not involved enough for their business to become an interference to TVXQ’s activities. I just don’t see the point the anti-fans are trying to make. When Junsu’s family had decided to invest, they asked all five members and their family if they wanted to join. Yunho and Changmin’s parents, already busy with their own business and day job refused the suggestion, and Yoochun’s mother and Jaejoong’s sisters decided go on board.
I don’t know exactly what happened (I wasn’t very interested in cosmetics back then), but the business must have been going very well since SM told the members they wanted a piece of what they were making. This was revealed in a newspaper article after the lawsuit was filed. We don’t know all the details, but I am sure this caused a conflict. It is my assumption that Jaejoong, Junsu, and Yoochun could not understand why they had to give away their personal earnings to SM. An investment always comes with a risk. It is possible that their cosmetics business could have gone the other way. Could it have been SM’s intention to watch negligently in case of failure and take the profit in case of success when they gave their permission for the cosmetics business? By the way, the fact that the members had to get SM’s “permission” for their sideline business shows what a tyrant SM was. Anyway, the three members must have rejected SM’s plan, and from that moment on, SM tried their best to interfere. SM forced them to change the names of their business and pressured them by spreading rumors that they were using the name “TVXQ” to sell their products. Yunho and Changmin’s parents also partook in this by labeling a perfectly legitimate company as an illegal enterprise and falsely accusing Jaejoong, Junsu, and Yoochun of planning an investment fraud based on no evidence whatsoever. (T/N: This took place on November 2nd, 2009 during SM’s press conference.) (Yunho fans also carried out this task by spreading malicious rumors about the cosmetic products, ordered by “Forever” on June 23rd, 2009.) (T/N: The role of Yunho fans and the significance of “Forever” will also be explained in sections to come.)
I am sure everyone who was a fan during this time knows the truth. Did Jaejoong, Junsu, and Yoochun really “use” the name “TVXQ” for their personal gain? Not as much as Yunho and Changmin are doing so by using the names “TVXQ” and “Cassiopeia” right now. It’s not like their fan pages ever forced the fans to make a purchase by saying “We must use only this brand of cosmetics because it’s sold by TVXQ!!” Visiting the cosmetics sales office to buy some cosmetics and talk to the members’ parents in small groups was like going on a fun trip for the fans. How was this any different from going to the pizzeria owned by Junsu’s parents, or the ice cream parlor owned by Yoochun’s mother, or the restaurant owned by Jaejoong’s mother? It is all right to have photos of Junsu hanging on the walls of the pizzeria, but it is a violation of portrait rights inside the cosmetics sales office? I wonder how many Korean celebrities do not actually run a sideline business. Are they all committing a crime then? They all run their business with the help of their fame.
To those who insist that Jaejoong, Junsu, and Yoochun neglected their responsibilities and left TVXQ because they were “addicted to the taste of money”, when did they ever neglect their responsibilities? They have always been extremely strict on themselves and have never missed one scheduled activity even when they were working through a deadly, jam-packed schedule. Then anti-fans say “they run the cosmetics business for money”. Of course they did it for money!!! Why else would one run a business, to just give it away? LOL. Those Ho-Tel fans always make a big deal out of nothing and make it sound like an unforgivable crime. They would criticize Jaejoong, Junsu, and Yoochun for even breathing. Those Ho-Tel girls.
I guess there are fans who still do not know what Ho-Tel means.
Ho stands for 호적파인갤 (a gallery cut off from relation, starts with syllable “Ho”) which is DC inside “Heading to the Ground” (Yunho’s first drama) Gallery. HTTG was once linked to DC inside TVXQ Gallery, but the link was later removed when HTTG gallery became infested with Homin-only fans who started spreading false rumors about JYJ.
Tel stands Telzone TVXQ Gallery of Daum
Since Ho-Tel girls have extended their territories and are everywhere these days, “Ho-Tel girl” has become the name for any Yunho and Changmin fan who believes that JYJ are the source of all evil. LOL. Recently, they have realized that it is almost impossible to bring Cassiopeia over to their side and are spreading rumors against JYJ on popular websites among non-fans. They try to be as noticeable as they can; therefore, even the people who have no knowledge of TVXQ’s situation are aware of the existence of the Ho-Tel.
Part II: The Story behind the Contract between TVXQ and SM
This is the second part of “Who is Forever?” This one tells the story behind the contract between TVXQ and SME.
Regarding the Contract between TVXQ and SM:
We’ve already discussed the unfairness of the contracts between members of TVXQ and SM Entertainment countless times, and the Fair Trade Commission has also acknowledged the unethical conditions. What I would like to discuss this time are the changes to the contracts that have been made since the initial signing. There have been several hearings since the lawsuit was filed, and if you’ve read some of the fan-written reports, you would already know much of what I am about to say.
The original term of the contract was 10 years long, but it was increased to 13 years right before the releasing of TVXQ’s first single “Hug.” Do you not find it odd that such a substantial change was made right before their debut? Could they say “No” after working so hard for years to be where they were? This was definitely an act of coercion by SM. I have to talk about Yunho in detail because some fans have a misconception that the term was changed to 13 years during the “rotation incident.”
Let’s Get into the Details:
When SM decided that TVXQ were ready to make their debut, all members, excluding Yunho, initially signed for 10 years. Yunho’s father believed 10 years were too long, and Yunho signed for 7 years instead. After the signing, SM actually decided to pull Yunho off the team. Jaejoong and Junsu strongly fought and reobtained Yunho’s place on the team, and the aforementioned change was made to their contracts, increasing all members’ terms to 13 years. The “rotation incident” happened after their debut. (T/N: “Rotation” refers to SM’s plan to make TVXQ a team of continually changing members.) SM, again, decided to replace Yunho with a trainee, and this was when the parents of all five members, who wanted to save Yunho, signed a written agreement which asked SM to protect the current state of TVXQ for the next 13 years.
Any fan with a well-functioning brain would never see this written agreement as a reason for Jaejoong, Junsu, and Yoochun to continue fulfilling their contracts despite the unfair conditions. Yunho fans, especially, must not use the agreement as a weapon against JYJ.
The evidence, showing it was indeed Yunho whom SM wanted to replace, was Yunho’s father’s involvement. He joined many of Yunho’s fan pages and asked the fans to show their support for Yunho. Outraged by SM’s plan, a majority of Cassiopeia decided to boycott SM and all products advertised by SM artists. Yunho’s father later asked the fans not to take extreme actions, not wanting to provoke SM. However, he still asked the fans to continue fighting for Yunho, and much of this remains both in the fans’ memories and in evidence.
But why did so many fans believe that SM was targeting Jaejoong instead of Yunho at the time?!!
http://gall.dcinside.com/list.php?id=dongbang&no=1233767&page=3&recommend=1&recommend=1&bbs
(T/N: This post is in Korean and explains the interaction among the members, their families, and fans during the rotation incident. It states that there were many fans waiting for TVXQ at an airport and that they saw Jaejoong sobbing, and that was why fans were lead to believe it was Jaejoong.)
If this is not enough information, please read the official notice of 20’s Cassiopeia fancafé.
Regardless of the length of the contract, the members always tried their best to fulfill their responsibilities given by SM. They worked so hard to juggle through cruelly busy schedules outside Korea that I was afraid their “loyalty” to SM would end up hurting and destroying them. I assume that they became more and more unhappy about their relationship with SM where they were given an exhausting amount of responsibilities and very little privileges in return. When SM started interfering with their sideline business, Jaejoong, Junsu, and Yoochun probably felt betrayed and started questioning SM’s plans for them and their future under SM.
People who consider themselves talentless would probably appreciate SM’s long-lasting contract terms. However, I do not see why people who are capable of continuing their musical growth have to stay bound to their contracts when it is legally possible to break free. Yunho’s father once said “A contract is a contract, and it must be fulfilled.” Changmin’s father said “An unjust law is still a law.” Excuse me, but I have to laugh. How could Yunho’s father, who is so proud to have graduated from law school, make such a nonsensical argument? Being a student of law myself, I feel quite ashamed for you.
Part III: JYJ vs Homin, the Dispute
Regarding the Dispute among the Members:
It is very annoying when people say that Jaejoong, Junsu, and Yoochun abandoned TVXQ by leaving SM Entertainment. Do they believe that TVXQ equals SM? If you have been a fan for a while, you would know how much pride the three members have in “TVXQ,” and it is unacceptable that some fans accuse them of abandoning the name “TVXQ,” when it is so obvious that they have chosen to use the name JYJ, not TVXQ, out of respect for the other two members. (T/N: Some fans have the misconception that SM has the right to the name “TVXQ.” They do not. JYJ could have used “TVXQ,” but chose not to.) Would they have been happy if Jaejoong, Junsu, and Yoochun had released “TVXQ, the 5th album” like Yunho and Changmin? The ones who have actually given up on “the old TVXQ” are Yunho and Changmin.
All the fans still remember to this day how they couldn’t help but notice the awkward atmosphere that existed between Yunho and Jaejoong during the Mirotic days. I just tried to ignore it thinking that they had a small fight again because of Yunho’s 85 club friends. However, I realized how serious the matter was when they were on a radio show and each member was asked what they wanted to say to his teammates. Jaejoong said the future of TVXQ was often the topic of recent conversations among the members. He said that he had a sense of insecurity but it went away when he looked at his teammates’ faces. Jaejoong was the only one who gave such a serious answer although he looked very hesitant, and I couldn’t help but notice the troubled look on Yunho’s face. (T/N: You could watch inside the studio through internet broadcast.) Although I believe it was too early for the members to have started discussing the lawsuit at that time, this has always been on my mind since the lawsuit was filed. From this we know that the members had talked about their future together since the Mirotic days, and you would also know that they had apparently continued doing so until the lawsuit if you watched the Couple Talk on All about TVXQ3, filmed in April of 2009. You would know that the members had been very close to making their decisions.(T/N: I believe Moto is talking about the conversation between Yunho and Junsu in particular. I will upload the clip with translations soon.) Even after the filming of AATVXQ3, the members probably had some time to think about their individual plans and their future, and I believe that it is completely understandable for them to have a disagreement.
It is my assumption that Jaejoong, Junsu, and Yoochun believed that even if they have to face many obstacles outside SM, they could gain their artistic freedom and lead both their group and individual careers to success with all five members and their loyal fans.
However, Yunho and Changmin probably thought about the possibility of losing the lawsuit and thoroughly considered their own individual opportunities offered by SM. They chose staying under SM for a guaranteed future over walking a thorny path, thinking they had tried and achieved enough as a group.
I do not see this as a “betrayal”; it is possible for them to have different beliefs. The Ho-Tel always argue that Jaejoong, Junsu, and Yoochun left for financial gains, but Yunho and Changmin also stayed for the same reason. I don’t believe there was anything immoral about their decisions. It is a given that one has to consider his own individual future as the top priority. However, what disappointed me was the fact that Yunho and Changmin never made the effort to stand up for their teammates when SM crushed their reputation by calling them “moneygrubbers” and accusing them of “scamming the whole nation.” Instead Yunho and Changmin insisted that they had known nothing and the members had suddenly turned their backs and left. Dozens of newspaper articles bought by SM were released everyday to condemn the three members as unforgivable villains. During that time, when I lived every single day in fear that the three might destroy themselves, Yunho and Changmin spent their days hiding behind their “SM family” and enjoyed their individual activities. (How happy Yunho looked when he was filming “Heading to the Ground”…) How could they sign the documents that said “we wish you would return to SM” and “this is all because of the cosmetics business” and pretend to be the victims when they knew everything?!!
I need to recompose myself…In retrospect, it probably seemed right for Yunho and Changmin to choose their individual careers (and more) over the group’s. Excuse me for having to bring this up, but I know of the sense of inferiority the two have always had to live with. I understand it completely.
Changmin’s parents saying “our son has always been treated as an outsider” did not make any sense whatsoever to the fans who had loved and known Changmin. Nonetheless, I tried to understand that, as parents, they could feel that way. Because we did not want Changmin to be targeted by the anti-fans for being the least popular, even fans whose favorite was not Changmin cared for him dearly. Nevertheless, I assume that he had growing concerns about his place beside his teammates. It is possible that he felt the need to build a better foundation for his future.
The same goes for Yunho as well. He has always tried his best to hide his discontent about being compared to his much talented teammates, and he has always put so much effort into everything that I couldn’t help but be touched. However, I realized how selfish Yunho could be when he answered countless questions about the situation at the HTTG press conference by saying “I hope things work out.” like a third party who could not care any less when Jaejoong, Junsu, and Yoochun were standing on the edge of a cliff. How could the leader of TVXQ behave that way?
Anyway what I am trying to say is that one of the reasons Yunho and Changmin believed they would be better off with SM than their teammates was that they somewhat thought they were not the beneficiaries of the group activities. However, all five members had to make compromises and sacrifice individual gains, and they were willing to do so because of their pride in “TVXQ.” It is funny that Yunho and Changmin now like to think of themselves as the “victims.” The two members and Ho-Tel often insist that the circumstances limited the amount of their activities and work opportunities, but they have done as much as JYJ if not more. In fact, it was Yunho who began an individual career earlier than anyone else. Yunho has always been quite ambitious, and there is nothing wrong with it. However, did he really expect to have new fans throwing themselves at him and become a “world-class multi-entertainer” by grabbing a couple of opportunities SM fetched him? (Yes, “world-class multi-entertainer” is the term so often used by Yunho’s father.) Is that why you chose to sit back and watch everything happen with no attempts to intervene, Yunho? If he was really concerned about the survival of “TVXQ,” he would have done a lot more. I want to ask him just one question. Why does he avoid JYJ’s attempts to contact him? Why does he not answer their calls or texts and clear up the “misunderstanding”?
Anyway let’s get back to Yunho’s activities. Yunho’s drama HTTG actually did head to the ground in ratings, and Michael Jackson’s “This is It” concert had two thirds of its seats empty. Yunho lip-synced to all his songs, and the overall quality of the concert was so horrendous that the media criticized it for being a disgrace to Michael Jackon’s name. Was he sick? Okay, that makes it all right. “Goong the musical” was so horribly produced that even Yunho fans wondered why he chose to do it in the first place. The short film “Haru” was overshadowed by the controversy of its actors getting overpaid.
I wonder why fans don’t remember these and keep on insisting that he has had no work!
Yunho must be quite disappointed that his solo career has not worked out the way he imagined it to when he accepted SM’s offer, and he seems to blame all this on JYJ as well. Now he comes back with Changmin as “the second act of TVXQ” with “the fifth album” to be loved by “Cassiopeia the third term.” Is he now steering in a different direction perhaps because his plan has not worked at all? Seriously, what is this? He could have just told us what he wanted right after the lawsuit was filed. He is being just too cruel to the “support-all-five” fans. (T/N: Moto does not mention any of Changmin’s work, but Changmin has also kept himself busy with his drama “Paradise Ranch” and countless photoshoots and interviews for many magazines.)
Part IV: So…Who is He?
Regarding 623, 625, and “Forever”:
(T/N: 623, and 625 refer to events that took place on June 23rd and 25th of 2009.)
It is now 2011, and there are fans out there who are still asking “What is 625? Did TVXQ really break up because of it?” I will try my best to clear up this matter which has remained without a proper explanation for far too long. Considering the current state of DNBN and other large fan communities, I believe there is no need to cover this up any more.
Note about changes and additions made to this post:
Yes, “Forever” did post his famous article on the 26th of June. That was when he made his official appearance directly. However, messages containing rumors created by Forever started spreading on June 23rd, and the “secret orders,” given out through online chat rooms on June 24th, included messages that were exact duplicates of Forever’s words. From this we can deduce that Forever began his propaganda on June 23rd. The Ho-Tel fans argue that Forever’s article, written on the 26th, has no relation to the “625 meeting.” However, it is an absolute fact that Forever’s propaganda is what caused the 625 meeting. I have added a detailed timeline of these events for fans who have no knowledge about the situation. (Added on January 9th, 2011)
June 23rd, 2009
Forever-esque rumors about “disbanding of TVXQ” started to be circulated on large internet communities unrelated to TVXQ such as “My Club.”
This was also when the former DNBN moderator said to have received a call from a certain person.
(T/N: The former DNBN moderator claimed that she had a meeting with Yunho’s parents who, according to her, informed her of JYJ’s plan to abandon TVXQ. She is now a famous Ho-Tel fan, and the new DNBN was created without her and her followers.)
June 24th, 2009
“Notice of termination of exclusive contracts and request for submission of reference data” were sent to SM from Jaejoong, Junsu, and Yoochun. This information was released through the media in July of 2009.
7:00PM~10:00PM
Yunho fans were called to an emergency chat room inside “Soul Dresser”, one of the three largest internet communities for female “netizens” in Korea.
The contents of this chat were very similar to SM’s official position on the TVXQ situation released three months later in November, 2009. The following points were present in both:
– focusing on rumor that JYJ would be signing a contract with CJ
(T/N: CJ is a very large Korean conglomerate with an entertainment sector.)
– revealing that TVXQ’s contracts were 13 years long, a piece of information only an insider might know
– insisting that 13-year-long contracts must be fulfilled no matter what
– arguing that TVXQ was created to conquer Korean, Japanese, and Chinese markets and 13-years-long contracts were, therefore, fair
– mentioning a rumor that JYJ members refused to shoot an advertisement for “Misha”
(T/N: “Misha” is a brand of cosmetic products. Forever argued that JYJ members refused to take part in advertising it because of their own cosmetics business. The representative of “Misha” strongly denied the rumor saying they never even offered TVXQ to model.)
– mentioning a rumor that JYJ refused to participate in SM Town’s summer album (A countless number of news articles was released regarding the cancellation of photoshoot for the album, but the album was still released with songs by all five members of TVXQ.)
– All arguments regarding JYJ’s cosmetics business made by both SM and Forever perfectly matched each other’s, emphasizing and criticizing “taking financial advantage of fans.”
– information describing the contractual relationship among TVXQ, Avex, and SM
– insisting that Changmin did not have a say (said Forever and Changmin’s parents)
June 25th, 2009
Since June 23rd, the rumor that said “TVXQ will disband because of Jaejoong, Junsu, and Yoochun’s cosmetics business” started circulating among moderators and users of large fan and non-fan communities through conversations using anonymous message boards and private messaging. This was the backdrop which caused the 625 meeting where JYJ’s family members had a private discussion with some fans to inform them of the current circumstances.
June 26th, 2009
“Forever” finally came out of the shadows and made his first “official” appearance at 1:00PM on his blog, awaited by his countless disciples. The key to figuring out who Forever and his followers are can be found in the chat log of “Soul Dresser.” Who could they really be?
More about 625:
The heads of Jaejoong, Junsu, Yoochun’s individual fan pages, who had been shocked by the quickly spreading rumors, contacted JYJ’s parents, asking for their advice on how to respond. The Ho-Tel fans often use 625 as a weapon against JYJ. They distributed an edited version of the recording, and insist that JYJ’s parents tried to frame Yunho and Changmin as betrayers by using parts of the recording which are taken out of context and blowing it out of proportion. (T/N: I don’t know how the Ho-Tel acquired the audio recording, but they have threatened JYJ and their fans with the contents of this recording for more than a year. The Ho-Tel fans’ interpretation of the recording is completely illogical and overly exaggerated.) I recommend that you listen to the entire recording. The Ho-Tel treat the recording as their secret weapon, but I was very disappointed to find out that its content was nothing questionable or controversial. The recording ends with Junsu’s father telling the fans not to respond to the rumors openly and to use their discretion. The Ho-Tel fans, who could not find anything else to criticize, claim that Junsu’s father told the fans to attack Yunho and Changmin. The members of JYJ were going through a tough time, and the last thing Junsu’s father wanted was a nasty war among the fans; therefore, he told the fans to fight the rumors passively with discretion. How could those dumb b*tches turn it into “make Yunho and Changmin look like the betrayers”?! Well, that was not the only time the Ho-Tel showed their absolute incapability to understand anything.
More about 623 and Forever:
“Forever” uploaded the “complete version” of his opinions, including all the aforementioned rumors, on his blog on June 26th. It contained very private information such as the terms of the contract and stories about the members’ parents that a mere fan could never know about. In just one day after it was uploaded, a majority of all Yunho’s fan pages and fan blogs managed to copy Forever’s article onto their front pages as their official notices. Don’t you find it mind-blowing that all those fans believed, without a single ounce of doubt, such shocking rumors and were so easily convinced by some stranger on the web with zero credibility in such a short period of time?! In fact, Forever’s article could not even be found by the search function of the blog service provider at that time. It was as if the heads of Yunho’s fan pages had been given a prophecy and were desperately waiting for “the birth of Forever” at an empty, newly created blog. Anyway, Forever’s opinions have now become “the bible” for most Yunho fans, and the set of words often used by them such as “loyalty,” “faith,” “truth,” “fact,” and “conspiracy” came from Forever. He is like the “father” of all Ho-Tel fans (just saying…). If you read it carefully, you would know that the objective of Forever’s message was “If we don’t do something fast, the fans will believe the three and criticize the two for staying in SM. We have to point fingers at the tree first and make the two look like the victims.” So who is “Forever”? I know he is not “just a fan” and that he is very close to the members, especially Yunho, and SM.
This shows messages on a private fan blog written in August, 2009. There are fans who have known all this since then, and there are fans who still don’t know anything yet. I am not asking for all the fans to accept this as the truth, and I am not asking any of them to become anti-homin. What I am asking is that all of us know of the arrows and daggers of blame that have been madly thrown at the three members. Please know that we are fans who are responsible for at least trying to stop the Ho-Tel from spreading their hate and cunning words. Please know that the ones who truly loved “TVXQ of all five members” are the stupid, stupid three members. For those of you who have avoided the truth until now and still hope for nothing but the return of all five members, please be brave and face the hurtful truth. The hurt you chose to neglect has become a dagger to Jaejoong, Junsu, and Yoochun’s hearts. If you wish to know more about Forever, these blogs (http://order623.egloos.com , http://one55.egloos.com) have all the information. (T/N: They are in Korean.)
Note from hopeforjyj: This is the final part of “Who is Forever?” I apologize for taking out some parts including the conclusion. They seemed a little repetitive and redundant, and it would have taken way too long.
This article reflects the opinions of the original author. The reason I decided to share this was not to create anti-homin fans but to inform you of the opinions widely acknowledged by a majority of Korean TVXQ fans. I know that Moto’s opinions, except when she states that it is just her assumption, are based on solid evidence and true events.
Although it is not cleary mentioned who Forever is, I think everyone can make their own educated guess. Some Korean fan communities such as DNBN and DC TVXQ Gallery are planning on requesting an official investigation as soon as the lawsuit is somewhat resovled and are currently collecting more information and evidence about Forever and other important figures.
Thank you for reading.
Original Text written by: Moto
Translation by: hopeforjyj 1, 2, 3, 4
Shared by: JYJ3
JYJ3’s Note: I decide to post this on my blog because I have a source that confirms “Forever” is now working to destroy JYJ’s image for international fans. So everyone be alert and if you read negative rumours about JYJ spreading on net, inform to jyj3official@yahoo.com
Tagged: 6.23 Meeting, 6.25 Meeting, Cassiopeia, Forever, Homin, Hotel girls, JYJ, SM, TVXQ
WOW! I feel way smarter now!! 🙂
DELETED BY ADMIN
Read my note!..I have my reasons too
…….you do realize that even if we don’t post things like this and don’t say anything that we’ll STILL have a bad image?
Might as well do what we want at this point imo.
Besides, as long as you ignore the personal jabs in this, you’re actually getting a lot of information.
But this… thing article whatever, doesn’t link to evidence of this “forever” guy. I mean, couldn’t we have screenshots, or mm threads, something real? I’m tired of kpop fans calling be crazy for supporting JYJ -_- this types of articles do nothing to reflect JYJ fans good intentions. Can’t we be the better type of fan?
Go to hopeforjyj’s blog and read up, there are more links and such there. Some of this stuff will not have “physical” evidence but some is based off of the memories of fans who were involved to a degree which IS a form of evidence in itself.
Btw, why exactly do you care what other people think of you anyway? They’ll think you’re crazy whether you do anything or not so stop worrying so much. You can’t change their minds anyway.
That’s the thing, we need to work on our image. We could change their minds if we could just handle ourselves with propriety and post the truth with more backup.
No,that is the mistake you’re making. The people who are talking badly about us will ALWAYS talk badly about us. These are people who do not care what we do, we are forever “bad” to them.
A hater will always be a hater .No matter what you change to try to appease them,they will simply find something else to have a problem with tomorrow.
Let it go and stop worrying about it.
SINCE YOU APOLOGIZED THEN I’M DELETING THIS POST
why are you screaming at me?
@ cenire Don’t take that personally. Many of the posters here don’t know much about internet etiquette. There’s a lot of screaming and punctuation abuse.
@cenire annawantjyjsmile always comments with capslocks LOL dont feel offended she’s cute like that. I think she’s more surprised than mad. I dx think she was mad at you.
IS READ THE TRUTH HARM PEOPLE????????????WE NEED THIS GREAT NEWS TO OPEN OUR BRAIN AND EYES???????
*hugs*…*handsyachocolatechips*..
@annawantjyjsmile: calm down girl, it is right to ask for the source but it is also the people choice to believe it or not with or without the source.
@cenire: this is a blog where people will discuss things, you may find this article is very bias but you have no evidence saying that it is full of assumptions. Plus, JYJ fans will not do anything to harm JYJ nor care enough about Homin to bash them, because we are too busy to support our idols.
Thank you for being nice to me. Re: the article. I thought it was full of assumptioms because it never linked to any evidence. I went to hopeforjyj though, and there were more links there, but where in korean… couldn’t we translate those and complement this article? We really need to be more rational when supporting JYJ, we need to show the truth the best way possible.
THANK YOU,WOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!THIS TRUTH REALLY SHOCK ME,THIS!!!!!!JUST???????WOWWWWWWWWW??????????IS MOTO A JOURNALIST?WHEN THIS WRITTEN?IS IT NEW?OMG????MY BELIEVE AND TRUST AND SUPPORT TO JYJ GROWING BIGGER BY THIS POST!!!!!!!!!!JYJ SARANGHAE????????????????
There are screenshots and links to websites in the other articles. This article just omitted them.
Sorry to tell you but the truth isn’t always pretty and I don’t see how anyone can say this information reflects badly on JYJ fans. I had read some of this previously but there is a lot of information in this article I did not know. I want the truth and so far I have been getting that truth from JYJ supporters. All I get from the majority of Homin fans is hate for JYJ. I don’t find that kind of hate on this site. Here is a little something for those commenting how “bad” JYJ fans are…people who live in glass houses should not throw stones. Sorry if this offends some but I am tired of the drive by comments about how bad JYJ fans are. It’s not just annoying but completely wrong.
I don’t find this article terrible. I’ve read it a while back but and thought it made a lot of sense. Plus, assumptions are made everywhere. No matter what site you go to, the words will be interpreted to benefit whoever is writing! BTW, I’M A PROUD JYJ FAN!
I find this article very detailed to those who are over seas like myself who can’t understand Korean. I find it very informative and help me clear up some of the misunderstanding and get a better pictures of the whole situation.
a lot of this information (when I first read it) was COMPLETELY new to me. I thought I knew a bit abut what was going on, but this made me realize how little I actually knew.
Yeah, we never got any of the articles that were in the Korean papers at that time. And of course we didn’t know what the accusations of the Hotel girls were.
yeah, knowing this information now just makes the situation (imo) more ridiculous and much more complicated and annoying.
im done with HOMIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!no love,no like,no hate either.FOREVER!!!!!!!!JYJ,FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you very much. Please, continue to clear up rumours regarding our TVXQ boys to us especially, the international Cassie. I truly appreciate your works. HWAITING!
well! that explains alot of things happening all this while. this gives a clearer n truthful picture.
there is such a thing as karma, uknow.
when u r on the side of evil
everything u touch turns to ASHES.
when u r on the side of truth
everything u touch turns to GOLD.
TIME will tell…
we can already see who is the one
with the midas touch.^^
wow same here some of this info i never heard of before, well ive only been a fan for almost a year but some of the stuff he said about yunho i have been questioning too but OMG THAT WAS ALOT OF READING!!!!
I am a little uneasy about much of part III. It is primarily the author’s speculation based on circumstantial evidence (even though it coincides with my own assessment of the situation.)
I suggest that readers not mistake any of the comments about HoMin’s motivations as fact. The only thing we have is their actions and they are well known.
Preach, girl. 🙂
I suggest everyone take this info with a grain of salt and doubt. We wanted the exact info K-cassies were getting, right? We got it now. We wanted to see their opinions on the situations (the lawsuit, HoMin, divided fandom etc), din’t we? We got that too.
Not saying that this was 100% true or that everyone should believe what was written in this post, but I guess as fans who had been watching the boys for all these years we could see and judge for ourselves what we think is right and wrong. Agree with @Eliza’s last point, “The only thing we have is their actions and they are well known.” Judge HoMin not from the words of fans but from their actions. If you respect them as men who can make their own decision, than their actions should speak for themselves.
Oh God, Forever. The day we catch this guy is the day we can all celebrate.
I know some fans will only glance or not even bother to read this whole thing, and then go around saying JYJ fans are coming up with rumors… well, like I said, the day we catch Forever is the day we all win.
By the way, let’s try to control our emotions. Although this is a JYJ blog, there are tons of non-JYJ/TVXQ5 fans who visit… We should try to remain calm and point out the relevant facts in order to clear up any misunderstandings…
Here are the two links linking to captured material on Forever:
http://order623.egloos.com/
http://one55.egloos.com/
Obviously, they are all in Korean and some Japanese.
I don’t like linking to outside sites, so feel free to delete or edit this post admin.
@Jungu. I really like what you have said.The TRUTH will eventually comes.
I’m not a DBSK fan for the last 7 plus years but I love their music and talents after I did some reading and watching their ‘past’ videos and I’m impressed with their manners as a youngster years back.With their lawsuit going on, I still wish that they can one day come back as five. I thought I’ve read enough from the fanbase sites but I am shock/angry with some of the facts from this article.If details given in this article can be present as evidences. Yes,fans can all celebrate but I guess that it will be difficult for the five to perform as TVXQ like before. Its just too much hurts along the way as it is now.
This article makes me angrier with Korean law not being able to get more transparency with justice.
web master, you’re not posting part 4?
I just edited and posted.
You’ve done a great job! Thank you for sharing and translating. I’ve twitted this article…hopefully, people will learn the whole truth about JYJ..!!
Thanks but I’m only sharing the information.^^
The translation was done by hopeforjyj.wordpress.com
This “Forever” creature is the big news for the international fandom. There is no way that this person is just a fan.
After what happened to Tablo, I’m starting to wonder if this type of behaviour is standard operating procedure for the industry — eliminate anyone who has hope of being successful without being in the system.
Forever is infamous within the Korean fandom. And you’re pretty much right, this is already being called the second Tajinyo..
But because of the sensitive nature of Forever and his identity, Korean fans were reluctant to translate things to the international fans. People are still collecting information and evidence. But I’m sure there will be a lot of media coverage on Forever once this case goes to court.
SM may have a lot of power and influence, but they can’t dodge the law forever 😐
AAAAAA++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is really extreme.
SM is awfully scrupulous.
Using a person (Forever) to create such chaos and fanwars only to defame/destroy three youngsters, I’m just speechless at how the Korean entertainment functions when on the other side they producing world Idols and stars.
I hope the Kcassies and Korean police will catch this “Forever” person soon to end this mess. It not only hurt the persons involved directly (JYJ) but we fans too.
got to agree Forever is the second Tajinyo. Why people seems so surprised? Did I miss something…this person is infamous what the crime he did on JYJ and DBSK…Dx tell me what this person didnt bother you at all. I was a Hell when I get to know bout the existence of Forever. This person exist.
This is a pot stirring article/blog entry. More than half of it is speculation. It is not intelligent to combat rumours with more rumours and speculation.
I agree -_-
But it is letting us know what the rumours are. International fandom is so in the dark that any little bit of information is helpful. I had no idea that there was a known ring-leader for the Hotel Girls, although I had suspected. I didn’t know what had gone on the infamous 623 & 625 meetings. All this seems to be common knowledge in Korea.
As long as the readers are smart enough to know this isn’t reliable as a citation, I think it is a good place to start. It gives us enough information to formulate more compelling questions.
YAP, I AGREE,WE HAVE OUR OWN DECISION !WE NOT BASH OR HATE,WE COME THIS SITE,WE SEE,WE READ,WE THINK,AN WE DECIDE THE CONCLUSION OF THIS POST,IS OUR PRIVATE THINGS!
There are parts of this article that are simply speculation. For fansites trying to spread the “truth” this is not the way to go about it. All that crap about yunho could have been left out, or at least omitted from this entry. Where is the evidence this stuff is true? The actions of this fandom show that many are not smart enough to take what they read with multiple grains of salt. Thus why you have idiots believing in mysterious sources and made up yunjae materials. This blog entry does not responsibly give out information in my eyes because it involves too much superflous author input. I want facts, evidence, not speculation. I support who I artistically enjoy and that is JYJ, but the rumour mill being spread by both parties of fans (JYJ and Homin fans) needs to stop. It creates a nasty atmosphere that is unnecessary.
If you are talking about the stuff in Part III, yes, I agree that speculation of that kind is not helpful. However it would violate copyright laws to alter the article, and there is important information in the rest of it.
This isn’t a news site. If you want to stick to the facts, go to The JYJ Files. They stick to news articles and professional analysis pieces. This is a fandom site that works with fandom sources as well.
There is enough overlap in this article with the factual sources that I’ve seen that I’m willing to call the new information presented here compelling. I hope that K-Cassies get to move on this creep soon.
The JYJfiles is not all fact. They have opinion pieces there as well. I dont agree with how this information was presented and that is it. Also, there are plenty of aricles shared by fansites with omitted information. They omit and leave what they feel is pertinent with a link/credit attached. As organized as this fandom seems to be it should not be inpossible for k-cassie or JYJ fans to come up with a cited and well researched document negating the rumours spread by others and explaining how they got started (that would take work but it is a better option than this). I do not think that spreading this blog entry around is the best way to state what the rumours are.
@lovex2: IF there was an article that had all the information lined up neatly, don’t u think it would be posted?There is NO ONE ARTICLE that has all the information. It’s scattered within opinion blogs. So in order to get the information, u gotta read the opinion entries. SORRY, but that is what happens when you’re a int’l fan. You take what you can get.
@bmw81187
Seriously, your condescending tone was not needed. I am well aware of what you just stated. I still don’t like the blog entry/article, that is my opinion and you don’t need caps to get your point across. You have your way of thinking and I have mine. Let’s leave it at that.
I wasn’t taking on a condescending tone, but if that’s the way you wanna interpret it then fine. Don’t say it was intentional though.
This is exactly why Koreans were reluctant to release anything before going to court.. But I suppose it’s a reaction we couldn’t avoid.
It’s a pretty opinionated article, yes, but I’m guessing the translators chose this article out of the many out there because it brings together a lot of points. It’s not exactly the most objective, but it gives you a general sense of what’s going on within the Korean fandom.
But ultimately, there are some credible information in here that is supported by evidence that you shouldn’t overlook.. The most important of which is of course, Forever.
All I can say is.. bear with us. Just try to take some of this in without getting too upset, or move on if you can’t. Things will get clearer in the future.
Puh-lease!
Yunho lipsynced to all the songs in Michael Jackson Tribute concert? I beg to differ. In the fancam alone, I can hear clearly his voice, breath and even his off-tune notes. If Yunho did really lipsync then why the hell did he go off-key in the audio version???
Although this article aims to clear up rumors, in the end, it unnecessarily bashed Yunho. If the author wants non-fans as well as all-5 fans or HoMin fans to read this article & understand your points, please restrain from bashing Yunho or Changmin. It’s not only offensive, but also make JYJ & JYJ fans look bad.
He did lipsync in certain songs.
It does not make JYJ fans look bad. Don’t generalize all JYJ fans just because you disagree with this article.
I disagree with the author bashing Yunho. Whether I disagree with the whole article or not, it’s another matter.
And it DOES make JYJ fans look bad. People tend to generalize, that’s why when you want to write an article to be post up on several sites, you need to choose your words wisely, since it not only affects your fandom, but also your idols.
@lee: honestly, this information is OLD. Any damage it would have cause is already done and the wounds have already scabbed over. Truth of the matter is that the only reason this information is being translated and given to us is because it thwarts any attempts by hotel girls to inject JYJ hate into the int’l fandom by putting alternate information out there that is opposite the info that is already currently being distributed by JYJ antis. That is it’s basic purpose.
Short point: variety in information leads to less confusion and one-sided opinion.
We will have to agree to disagree. I would hope that the readers of this article are smart enough to figure out the opinions based on facts and just the personal opinions of the author.
it’s not clearing up rumors, it is STATING WHAT THE RUMORS ARE.
If you can’t pull out the relevant information from all the opinion, then (and I know this will sound bad) why did we all bother learning critical thinking in school? Not everything will be lined up neatly for you all the time.
I’m sorry if that came out harsh, but that is something that REALLY bothers me.
Amen!
*HI5*
– why did we all bother learning critical thinking in school?
/chokes
Something we learned in school being applicable in real life? Say it ain’t so!
It DOES try to clear up some rumors & misinformation. Like the rotation & extended contract; or “JYJ neglected TVXQ duty because of money”, etc…
AGREE!!!!!!!!!
@lee: yes there is a little clearing up, but the vast majority of this article is bringing all of the rumors to light.
Therefore, that is why this is less of a rumor clearing article and more of a rumor stating one instead.
Is that all you got out of this? The she thought Yunho lip-synched? (Which is not an unreasonable assumption given the amount it is done in Korea.) You didn’t get the whole systematic slander and libel of three people, their families and a company?
Amen to this too!!
DELETED BY ADMIN – READ THE RULES PLEASE
I am not in particular a JYJ fan. I am a music fan. I just happen to like the music JYJ has released. I am not a band or idol groupie. If I like a song I like it. It doesn’t matter who sings it. I am just tired of all the comments saying how “bad” JYJ fans are when I read this blog quite a bit and I rarely see any “bad” comments towards Yunho or Changmin. It annoys me when I read those comments because it’s not true.
@Lee Yes, we are.
@Lee So the passive-aggressive swipe was just directed at me. Nice to know I’m so special. 😀
@Lee
“Some JYJ fans are just…” Excuse me??? and YES YOU ARE RIGHT! “Some JYJ fans are just…” TO BUSY RACING MONEY FOR CHARITIES AND HOSPITALS IN JYJ NAMES! TO BUSY OPENING A INTERNET BROADCAST STATION FOR JYJ! TO BUSY LAUNCHING ADS IN BUSES TO PROMOTE AND SUPPORT JYJ! TO BUSY DONATING MONEY SO KIDS WITH CANCER CAN HAVE TREATMENT! TO BUSY GETTING JYJ NEWS PUBLISH IN DIFFERENT COUNTRIES NEWSPAPERS! TO BUSY BEING IN NUMBER ONE FANCLUB IN DONATING RICE DURING JYJ SEOUL CONCERT! AND JUST TO FUCKING BUSY BUYING JYJ PERFECT, WONDERFUL OWN PRODUCED ALBUM! SO NOW IF YOU EXCUSE ME I THINK…..UMMM…..IDK I THINK WE JYJ FANS ARE DONG PRETTY WELL!…..I am sorry if I was kind of harsh but I AM JUST TIRED OF READING COMMENTS LIKE YOURS, THAT THINK THEY KNOW EVERYTHING BUT THEY ACTUALLY DON’T!……Oh who am I kidding! I am not sorry at all!……..Admin feel free to delete my post if I am mean! 🙂
@ CENIRE?MY IM SORRY.IM NOT MEANT BEING RUDE.I JUST HAD SHOCK WITH THIS ARTICLE,MY “MYJ DEFENSE” SENSE SO SENSITIFBUT I WISH IM NOT OVERBOARD.ONSE AGAIN IM SORRY???
No prob. You just surprised me with the CAPSLOCK OF RAAAAGE lol :0)
There are plenty of parts that are speculation. but this article is spreading the truth about the rumors. it’s clearing up alot of confusion for international fans letting them know what rumors are going around in the fandom. the writer NEVER said that these rumors were actually true or that we had to agree with her, nor did she say that her article was 100% accurate and that we should believe nothing. had the writer said that, then it would be a whole different situation. it is pretty obvious that much of this was her opinion.
*we should believe nothing else
thank you! Basically, READ AT YOUR OWN DISCRETION.
THIS,WHAT I WANT TO SAY!AGREE WITH U
I had no idea that such a person called Forever exists, although thinking about it, it should not have surprised me that he did. 623 and 625 were also something new to me, but I think that’s because since this whole lawsuit started, I never really bothered to look for the details and was just content in reading what was provided to me. Looking back, those weren’t much. It seemed that people were careful about the information that was disseminated, so as not to add fuel to an already precarious situation.
I’m actually grateful for the Korean fans for sharing information like this now, so that other fans could read, absorb, and know what’s happening. It’s not like people are asking you to believe what they do, just that you know all the information that’s out there, and based from those stuff, form your own opinion.
I read this article before and I know how much bashing it was receiving, but people…please take the time to read and analyze..first of all it is clearly stated that this was a piece written by a blogger who tried there best to gather information, of course there will be some speculations cause heck if we knew all the facts we wouldn’t be in this position today as a fandom…but I think this was posted to make people aware of what has occurred and what is going on in Korea and Japan…
Just to add I do remember when this so called “forever” was releasing statements and questioning who the heck he was and why was he being allowed to release certain information.. because if my memory serves me right he actually seemed to lean OT5 with stating that all the members wanted to be together and I think he played off of the emotions of the fans at that time then next thing you know he makes his statement against the three members..that’s where it got rocky because if I am not wrong didn’t this person interview a certain parent and became a vessel for that parent to express his view…If anybody here was around during those times can you guys confirm or refute my statement…
But this just goes to say that heck I didn’t voice my opinions then and look at where it has led us…now it seems like JYJ fans are the one creating a propaganda when all that we are doing is sharing information that should have been shared before….
Who is Forever? well they were a bunch of FOREVER ALONE groupies…………………………FOREVER ALONE~~~
I read and know the existence of this thing since the dispute started and i had been hunting down the more credible article and I must say to see it here then i think i acknowledge the part where there were actually movements to bring JYJ down as low as they can manage bring them down and these are among of those nasty stuff the people are doing to JYJ. What suprised me more is that lots and lots of DBSK fan especially international OT5 been avoiding this kind of post. I dont know, maybe people will freak out and scared. Honestly this is more on your judgement toward the whole issue. Well take some time read and analyze. Better know and get hurt rather than running away pretending all are flowers and butterflies. The fact that there are so many rumors going around and being spread out to “kill” JYJ, that is actually a fact that you cant just let it passed. And people wonder why some people take side to support JYJ…
I really dislike it when ppl say things like “It makes JYJ fans look bad!” Are we not allowed to have our own opinions? Am I the only one who has a brain and knows how to use it? It’s up to you to read it and process it yourself. And if you’ve got questions, research it. I’m amazed at how so many fans from both sides can’t think for themselves!!!
BTW, this isn’t the first time that SM has had these type of controversy and I’m sure it won’t be the last. Many years ago, when HOT disbanded and JTL was formed, SM did exactly what they did now. (And FYI, Kangta & Moon were the ones who stayed with SM) Don’t believe me, research it! The boycotting, bribery and threats! SM treated JTL the same way they are treating JYJ now! It wasn’t until after a few years later did the TRUTH finally come out. And yes, it was OFFICIAL! What pissed me off the most was that just because Moon didn’t do so well, SM didn’t want him anymore. Tossed him aside as if he was nothing. Come on, he was the LEADER OF HOT!
As for Shinhwa, SM only wanted 2 out of the 6 members. However, the lovely leader Eric and Minwoo decided against because they wanted to stay as a group. (LOVE YOU ERIC!) So after their contract expired, the all took off together to another agency. SM wasn’t happy so they fought for rights to the name Shinhwa (deja vu?) but lost. Sorry, but I do have to applaud Eric for keeping the group together after all these years! 🙂
And let’s not forget FTTS & SES, lol. Ok, now I’m going overboard. What I’m saying is that history is repeating itself. Many of you act like this is the first time something like this has happened but NO! It happened before and will continue to happen in the future with other idols as well UNLESS SOMETHING IS DONE ABOUT IT! And quite frankly, I don’t understand why some fans are so angry towards JYJ! I mean, the reasons these angry fans have given aren’t good enough to excuse ANY of their behaviors!
“Are we not allowed to have our own opinions? Am I the only one who has a brain and knows how to use it? It’s up to you to read it and process it yourself. And if you’ve got questions, research it. I’m amazed at how so many fans from both sides can’t think for themselves!!!”
EXACTLY!
Critical thinking skills.
I also totally agree with you about how history is repeating itself. I immediately thought of JTL when I began to hear about how JYJ were being treated by SME. The individuals changed, but the company tactics remain the same.
THIS PRECISELY…its nothing new to be honest. And yes! I love Eric too. He even pay SME with his own money to get the members out. I remember reading a Shinhwa fan blog, SME want to throw Andy to the point sending him to US (pretty much what they did to Amber f(x) and Kibum Suju — isolate them). Fans been bumping to Andy out from the SME office will sunglasses and every time he went out be will be wearing one, its attracting attention since sometimes its unnecessary, well guess what the man was said had been a punching bag few times just because he had a voice to speak up. I dunno, its rumors but Shinhwa fans had been crying blood just like us today.
One classic rumor, early DBSK debut…the managers used to do that to Yuuchun and JJ, but never touch the face. Soulmate were said to be rebellious and vocal. Sigh…We will never know, but that were few incident/rumors i heard clouding that SME. The rumors were a lot….You will cry if you read it.
THe physical abuse stuff is the most upsetting piece that I have come across when I first started “researching” article relating to DBSK boys ! I discouraged any youngsters in my family from going to any Korean ENT auditions. My mission now is JYJ must have a fair hearing this March .There is no justice in Korea with SME “doings”
THANK YOU!
I could never see SM and their artist without sideeyeing them ever since I knew that SM tried to disband shinhwa. Every shinhwa changjo knows this story, how eric kneel infront of LSM begging to have the right of shinhwa’s name. How eric ran around from each of the member’s house trying to convince them to stay united and stop them from being influenced by SM, how eric and minwoo rejected SM offer to stay but ditch the other 4, and one thing that I wasnt paying so much attention to, until I became a jyj fan was the story of how kim dongwan told dbsk boys to stick together,because there were rumours that said micky was to be punished by sm, dongwan said they need to be always by yoochun side (what or why I dont know). Again this is only rumours, how much truth is in it I dont think noone could validate it.
@youmelove I’ve heard about H.O.T and FTTS but never heard anything about SES, could u please share a light?
This is what is killing the international fandom. People aren’t allowed to talk about controversial issues. Once you talk about how JYJ is being harmed by antis, you are being called “spreading rumours to ruin Homin and make JYJ fans as a whole look bad”.
I’M SORRY. We are JYJ fans, what we do is PROTECTING JYJ. People have NO IDEA how much JYJ and JYJ supporters have suffered, people have NO IDEA how much antis have tried to harm us, to ruin us, and spread malicious rumours about us. International fans don’t know this. That is why we have to SPEAK UP, have to INFORM people what really happened and what is happening.
AND, NO, it does not make JYJ fans look bad. It makes ANTIS LOOK BAD because of all the SHIT they have done to JYJ and JYJ fans. THAT’S ALL.
IKR? I mean….they want to protect DBSK but being all hush hush when it come to a sensitive issue just for the sake of keeping safe? Oh come on! its like in domestic violence, the dad was beating $hit of the children but you as the mother just keep silence coz afraid the family will break down and people know that you got problem. That’s not protecting, that’s destroying the family, the son, the relationship between the you and the son, and definitely destroying yourself. You need to get hurt sometimes to know what’s happening around you in certain situation to help people you love the most and even to safe yourself.
Well, I read this. And I understand, to some point. I very much know that JYJ did not leave SM because they were “Money-hoggers” and I know that Yunho and Changmin may not be able to say anything because of SM. But what I really got me pissed off was when “Wae (Keep your head down)” was released. I’m not saying I didn’t like it. Because I do. But I can’t help but shake off the feeling that it does have to do with JYJ. Maybe it was just SM’s doing and HoMin had no choice but to sing it. I know how much trouble HoMin would be in if they went against SM’s wishes. But I really don’t understand why they would think that they were considered as the minorities of the group. Do they not understand that they have all been international sense their “Hug” days? I don’t know. So, like I said they could be forced by SM to keep their mouths shut. But another has irked me. The fact that Yunho said, that Jaejoong had never tried to contact him. Hmm……..? now don’t get me wrong, he is right in saying that he thought it was just a fan. Seeing as JYJ changed their numbers. But to go as far as to say, and I quote, “That’s a lie.” That Yunho, is to far. What the hell happened to “Always keep the faith”? and Changmin, I know you think you don’t have a voice in this whole situation…..but if you don’t speak up for yourself, how do you expect to make something of yourself. I know Changmin is loved by all, but I remember he once said, “If even one member leaves, it wouldn’t be Dong Bang Shin Ki”. Wow. Were those just words? Now I know that it seems that i’m just attacking HoMin. Don’t get me wrong, I love all five of these guys. I will always be a fan of all five. Not one, not three and not two. But five. So back to what I was saying, JYJ are making themselves be heard. Their just trying to continue out their lives as entertainers without having to have a freaking sword over their head all the time. So, HoMin, I really hope you react soon. Because if you don’t, that sword, might just fall on you. 😦
reading what what you wrote….you know sometimes i wonder…did Yunho and Changmin actually didnt 100% believe in Cassies…what are they afraid of? If they believe in us… i think they will walk hand in hand with JYJ. I feel that, what HoMin is lacking is the ability to gamble their destiny and deal with it attitude.
I agree with you. Yunho is the leader of the five member DBSK. He should know what it feels like to be in the limelight. They all should. But its just that their afraid of what the outcome would have been. I don’t know, maybe they would have had a better chance at leaving all together because then JYJ wouldn’t have been blamed for leaving because of their own gain in the cosmetics industry.
Reading all those comment it make me feel surprised, this article was released quite a while ago, by Korean fan who want international fan to understand the situation in Korean.
A lot of people said that the author was too bias, a lot of negativity issues from this article.
I know that some material in this article based on assumption but this assumption made by those Korean fan, the one who lived closely with SM and our boys, the one who knew about Korean entertainment’s history. That along gave it the credit it deserve.
This article do have the same style as article who’s written by “you-know-who” and become homin’s fan weapon.
But, I hope all fan could see the light after reading this, don’t take anything at value, find the information by yourself, ask Kfan to translated.
Don’t blame admin or the people who make the translation, because everyone have its own bias, if you don’t agree with this information than find it yourself, but if your you don’t have a fact to back it up, then I still believe at this article more, since both of them are made by assumption and as JYJ fan, I stood beside JYJ.
And please don’t manipulate data, it would only revealed later and make the consequences harder…
i can only say….hwaiting to k fans in catching this FOREVER DUDE 😡 this dude reminds me of tablo case….where he gets bash for not being truthful of being a student in havard or oxford whatever….smells fishy this forever dude….
whose?tablo???im blank?
hes from epik high…also one of jj’s friends
Tablo from Epik High graduated from Stanford University in USA, a prestigious university, very famous. Some Korean netizens and antis started rumors that he lied about going there/graduating. It got ridiculous. He had to spend a lot of time & money to prove the truth. Article explains it here: http://news.stanford.edu/thedish/?p=8621
This is why nothing surprises me about the rumors HoTels and JYJ antis will spread. They will go to great lengths and spread rumors wherever they can, pretend to be fans but say things to make people uneasy…
Great minds! 😉
There was in internet campaign early last year to discredit him by saying that he never graduated a degree from Stanford or that he bought his degree. Basically calling him a big liar.
He tried to defend himself, even went so far as to go to Stanford in August, with a camera crew, and get the president of the university to confirm that yes, he earned his degree (an M.A. I believe). But the harassment didn’t stop.
Tablo has been out of the public eye since about October when the police and Interpol finally got involved. 12 people have been arrested in relation to this case. The ringleader – a 57 year old man living in the US.
Yeah, the saddest thing to me is that after the police and Interpol got involved, then Tablo got bashed for “going too far” — as if the organized smear campaign against him was just some harmless fun, not something that could ruin his career and reputation.
Because of that, I worry a bit about backlash when/if the police get involved finding out who “Forever” is. If it gets that far.
I read the article I thought it had to do with jyj…it did. I didn’t read the article because of the writer’s opinion. In fact if the title had been “A writer’s low opinion on a certain leader, I probably wouldn’t have read it. So the author has a low opinion of Yunho…and it shows…so freaking what?! If thats what you took from this article then you didn’t read it for the reasons most people at jyj3 would >.> If you know anything about writing or have done any deep reading you’ll know that usually the authors true feelings on the subject can be found….it’s usually way more subtle than this because those who have a job of writing are paid to be objective (although there is of course cause and jobs that pay for your opinion or for you to lean on one side of the subject) But this girl is a fan and at the end of the day she’s not even a writer so her opinions will be shown because she only wanted to do one job (clear rumors). She didn’t stop first and ask herself, “what can I say, what shouldn’t I say? What would be the correct tone? What effect would my opinions have on the effect of this article?”
Everything Ive read no matter if its a pup piece, a long article, a fact list or even a comment, I always ask myself what did they want me to take from this, what was the manner when they wrote this, and most important what do I want to take from this. Everything else is pushed aside. I take it as what it is and try not to make it anything else. In fact I didn’t look at her opinions as just speculation but instead as a low cut thesis (anyone who knows about a thesis will know why I call this a low…low cut thesis) it is in fact a spot a good number of fans have landed from the info they’ve taken in. The reason I find people interesting is because we thing we land in the place of thought we land in because of the facts or info we’ve collected but usually its a combination of those things and who we ourselves are. I learned a lot about this writer from and some of the people who commented on it from just one (long) article. I dont know why people are so bother by her words. She says she’s not trying to make you hate the 2, if you feel she is then simply don’t fall for it…If a person says “I hate yunho now because of this girl’s opinions” then thats tells you a lot about that person and those words are actually a lie, they’ve probably just been waiting for a good enough reason to hate the man, and if thats theyre good reason its okay to assume by now they’ve already claimed to have hate for the man. If a person says “Oh well I hate yunho because his embers fought for him and he let them down” Well thats a bit more understandable. Both situations can come from the same article but it just depends on the type of person. Its simply this don’t blame the messenger! A person can’t be pulled a way they really don’t wanna go. Decisions are made by us ourselves and even if someone argued that this writer is giving one side of the picture, thats because of the reason she was writing if you were a piece about why god is better than the devil you wouldn’t say something great about the devil that gives him much standing ground. It is your job to ask yourself why something has been written, what is the writer trying to truly gain and then do more research no matter how you feel about the piece.
A few people commented that this makes jyj fans look bad…I have to disagree. For some of the reason I wrote up there, and for the simple fact that Ive never agreed with the generalizing when it comes to the term “that person makes it’s group look bad” All my life I’ve heard things like “Oh that girl makes women look bad” or “That kid makes children look like demons” It is not the people who are committing the acts that make a group look bad it is actually the people that generalize and make one person or a few people the full picture of a group instead of realizing man can only be for himself he is not the full outlook of all other men (in other terms humans.
hmm… the history is really repeating itself..”sigh”.if i can choose i hope they can be like Shinhwa not HOT..altho jae used to like Kangta.poor bb
Thanks for this post so long to read
Anyway , i support JYJ and hope to see 5 guys together. I don’t understand why fans who love TVXQ5 became JYJ ‘anti fans
Our JYJ’re so cute and so nice
JYJ fighting!
..Part III: JYJ vs Homin, the Dispute..OMG!!! honestly..this is really frustrating..i feel angry and sad at the same time..it’s true Yunho always be the ambitious one maybe this is what pushed him to where he is now..i’m not being bias since i’m a “support all five” fans but after read this article i begin to have second thought which i really trying very hard not to…i wish this is all not true but it’s time to face the reality and it sucks!!..
This is just my opinion.
I think why the OT5 fans are acting like that (from the comments above) is because they did get to see how united, organized and etc, etc the JYJ fans are and doesn’t see that in HM fans. That’s frustating I guess because they love the 2 also, but well..
Just my opinion and I’m not really good in judging people.
First time to comment in JYJ/DBSk blog.
this really crossed my mind sometime..why can’t we just support all five of them and put aside all the rumors, statements, assumptions,accusations and what so ever..but this is just seems too easy right??..
i hope JYJ’s fan will remain humble and positive because i was totally shocked how creepy and aggressive HoMin fans are when i visited some of their site a couple of days ago..m(O_o)m
Its funny that when I first learned of this group(early 2008), I’ve already rank them as to whom is my fave based on the looks (yeah, i’m quite shallow since i really don’t understand their songs), JJ-YC-JS-CM-YH.
It was really quite easy for some fans to choose the side who to support. And i hope OT5 fans will respect that.
In reading both these articles and DNBN’s response to a certain blogs translation & commentary re 6.25 I noticed that the writer/admin of that certain blog very much follows the pattern of “forever” in Korea. Didn’t quite realize how similar the modus operandi was until the JYJFiles admin verbalized in one the comment section for the Warning on Crebeau & Malicious Rumor article:
“Actually, Precious is a he. And it is also unlikely that he is merely a fan. Most of his rumors are based on inside information difficult for the average fan to access; this too was a defining characteristic of Forever in Korea. And it is also no surprise that that he is gathering or “hording” as you say a group of loyal fangirls. Aside from the fact that this was also the precedent in Korea–an elusive male claiming to be a disinterested third party crowned ringleader of a destructive horde (it’s a Freudian commentary waiting to happen)–we advise our readers and the larger JYJ/DBSK5 fandom to exercise utmost caution and perception.”
credit: @The JYJ Files
WoW… just wake up in morning!
Thank you Admin for long artical, read the post and all comments made my head launched.Really written very straight people, no matter what she has bias or not but also be thankful for the information put forward, Sometimes straightfull way make you were uncomfortable, but to make you easy understand than flowers words,sometime you have to care the way to talk dont make to hurt ppls but sometime you really have to rase you voice to let ppl understand you esp in bad situation,right JYJ fans!!!.Anyway, this artical help me can see both site( read other site alreay) and now i have to make my own logical thinking…with my coffe!!!!
I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again…
THE ONLY THING YOU HAVE TO FEAR, IS FEAR ITSELF!
I don’t like bullies. I have a strong aversion to them. If reading an article written by someone who is expressing an opinion makes you concerned about what others think, ask yourself this question. What can they possibly do to you? Yes, they can spread lies and say, ‘see what they’re doing!’ But they tend to forget, somewhere along the way, the truth does come out.
Besides, JYJ fans are showing at every turn why they are building the foundation for them to stand on. The fans are staying strong because they beleve in JYJ and their good character and abilities to chart their own course.
Sometimes rumors are tossed around, and there will be some people who don’t get it, that you should try and research for yourself. That still doesn’t mean articles can’t be posted that contain pertinent information.
This entire situation by its very nature has evolved into ‘a war’. SME is determined to win at all costs, by any means necessary. Their history is like an open book, it is there for all to see.
I am a relatively new DBSK/TVXQ, now wholeheartedly a JYJ fan. I had to go searching for background information once it became apparent there was something amiss. Some information came from news sources, some from blogs, some from websites. I try to absorb each item carefully. Can I say honestly that I always view each piece objectively, no. But then I also tend to be the kind of person that when I make up my mind, it pretty much stays made up.
The unfortunate aspect of the Internet is that it makes it possible for a WHOLE lot of information to be out there. Coupled with the fact that not everyone comes to it with the same cognitive skills. These things can’t be avoided. It would be nice if everyhing we thought objectionable could be tied up into a very neat bow.
I’m willing to cut the writer some slack because she did mention she was trying to point out the rumors that were already floating around. Did she make some assumptions that were based on speculation, I’m sure she did. But they were there trying to put some time frames in a sort of sequence.
For those who are International fans and not on the ground so to speak, it may seem a bit annoying. I try and remind myself, the fans who sat back and tried to be patient, tried to be nice, then saw the ‘Hotel brigade’ blast off like a rocket, must have felt extremely frustrated. It’s almost like trying to play catch-up. Sometimes you can make a mistake, but your intentions are honorable.
I doubt that SME and it’s cadre of operatives are going to sit back and let up. At this point, looking at the fact that they are very likely to lose this case, they are probably going to pull out all the stops. Sullying JYJ’s names and reputations is about all they have left now. But that still does not mean one has to let the bullies cower you into submission of not fighting back.
It’s been my experience that once you stand up to bullies, they lose their momentum. They count on their victims to stay scared. I don’t scare so easily, and I certainly don’t care what they say about me.
As someone mentioned earlier – BRING IT ON!
I too will be looking forward to learning who ‘Forever’ is. I have my own personal suspicions as to who it might be. No, it’s not based on factual knowledge, but total speculation, actually more of a vibe than anything else. I’ll be interested to see how correct my vibe is.
Well said! I’ve been a DBSK5 fan long enough to see all of this unravelling before my eyes, and what I say now: I’m *grateful* to the fans translating and sharing information with us now that was known in Korea a long time ago. Some of it is filled with obvious speculation and opinions, but reading it gives me the complete picture.
For nearly 2 years, I’ve been frustrated by comments in other blogs saying, “I know what they know in Korea, and if you knew the truth, you wouldn’t believe /this or that/” But no one ever said what “truth” it was they knew, and if people asked them, most of the time, the reply was “I got bashed on another site for saying what I know, so I won’t say anything.”
I understand why Korean sites/fans supporting JYJ were careful with info at first. But I remember even back in August 2009 reading what I now know were HoTel rumors, either left by English-speaking HoTel, or translated by a fan who believed what they were saying. I didn’t believe their rumors then, and I thought it was strange that a lot of what they said mirrored what SME was saying in the lawsuit. But until this year I had no idea of HoTels or any such thing. I’m grateful to finally have the big picture.
So much of what SME is doing reeks of desperation. Yet it’s pretty effective, that’s what’s so troubling. I hate bullies, too, and I really want to see the bullies get what they deserve.
It will be somewhat effective for a while because they are used to this type of modus operandi’. But, and here is the but part, to my observation, they have not run into a more determined group of people who are willing: to standup for, take their back, hold their hands, guard their flanks – than the fans surrounding JYJ.
I’m not a Cassie, but from the start Cassies were savvy enough to standup to SME. That’s why they wanted to restrict the current membership, because they know they can’t control the original group. The newer fans, younger, less invested, probably not as mature, are much more vulnerable for manipulation. Not to mention they have absolutely no sway over The Ahjumma Army! 🙂
I feel like a pirhana in the river who smells blood, and just waiting for my chance to strike! 🙂 May sound a bit vicious, but I’m really warming up for this fight.
wow we should catch this forever person….
cant wait to see the result in the end!!!!
I’m not surprise if this so called forever person is someone that we know for a looooonnnngggg time, tsk….what a pathetic.
Hope For The Best….
Well….reading the articles and comments make me dizzy…..But one thing for me is sure…..that SM tries any possible mean to put their fingers on JYJ and blame them for not keeping the commitment……SM also tries to get their investment back …That’s why they insist to release Homin’s album although without presence of all DBSK members……..Furthermore, SM feels afraid of the huge and factual potential of JYJ as the most phenomenal artist…..not only in Korea, but also worldwide……..JYJ shines brighter after they left SM…..SM cannot accept the truth…..The fans of JYJ are getting stronger, wider, bigger, and more loyal……..JYJ fans have proven that they are the real fans……I bet the other SM artists envy how loyal JYJ fans are…….We should have one action to provide full support to JYJ, not only in good times…..it’s even more important in difficult times such as now (where JYJ even cannot perform in TV’s of their own countries, despite all records they’ve made)…..JYJ fighting!
I Agree all most verything you say,bb! only one little thing” SM also tries to get their investment back” I think they get it back along time compare with all activitied of DBSK5 in the past and even last year their sale old albums still in top sale.Now they just tries make much money they can make…
I’m shocked beyond words O.O….
I would say that at the moment jaejunchun formed JYJ, they must be really brave and wise decision because the three consider TVXQ will only be true for 5 members..
It would be good if yunho&changmin use HOMIN instead of the name that mean for all fives..ah, I miss friendship & heartwarming TVXQ past days..
I really thought yunho is a good leader, jaejoong is always the honest speaker&mood maker ,junsu’s beauty voice&dolphin, yoochun is love&romantic and changmin is straight foward person…all combine harmonically as TVXQ.. (many maybe don’t get my idea’s here T_T)
this may be late, but thank you so much for posting this, my eyes now wide open and my love for JYJ just get bigger and bigger…
I’m reading this so late… but I have always believed in JYJ… I am clinging as an Ot5 till now despite my guts saying otherwise. I have read many many blogs about the case and as many of fans, I also landed into truetvxq blog. Fortunately I also jyjfiles that talked about the meeting 6.24. Now I just feel lost. Though my biases are indeed jaejoong and yoochun and add junsu… I held so much respect for Yunho and Changmin…